Starting Final Mixes Song 10 - For My

BroKen_H

BroKen_H

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I know it's out of order, but I was having such fun with this yesterday, I had to post it up. Double bass lines. Simple Chorus. Got a great lead tone out of my Vox/LP. (the rhythm is an Orange Sim). I want the vocals to be a bit loose, but if there are obvious problems, let me know. This is not autotuned (well, the high harmony has a few notes pushed around).
Anyway, tell me what you like. Tell me what you don't like.



Okay, cleared away a bit of the drums to unclutter. Got rid of the hihat offbeat. Tweaked the overhead volume up a bit.



Lots of changes (and an experiment)

 
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The drum beat has some sort of skip in it that throws the groove off for me. So far so good on the rest....
 
Thanks gents. I specifically played the hihats on the offs. I'll redo if it's throwing it out the window.

as a side note: I can tell I was pushed for time when I posted this, I put the wrong name in the title...reminds me of my mom trying to figure out which child she's trying to get the attention of. :)
 
Okay, cleared away a bit of the drums to unclutter. Got rid of the hihat offbeat. Tweaked the overhead volume up a bit.



I think the snare needs more "pop" Doesn't stand out very well.
 
I didn't notice much of a difference between mix 1 and 2.

I thought the song had kind of an abrupt start. But it settled into a kind of cool groove.

The distorted guitar I thought had too much gain dialed in. It was a bit mushy.

The bass had a bit of a clean/sterile sound. But it ended up working for me. I thought it was a cool sound. It was a real good part - moved well and kind of drove the rhythm.

I got the feel that all the instruments were kind of mushed together and didn't have their own space. The vocal - both lead and harmony - totally dominated the instruments. I liked the harmony vocal - the part worked well. The echo/reverb/delay/whatever effect on the vocal was kind of cool. It's a bit wet. I'd keep the effect, but it pull back just a nudge.

I thought the lead guitar tone was pretty nice.

The overheads are pretty hissy. Too much hyped high end.
 
It sounds to me like the guitars aren't matching the vibe of the tune or the other instruments. Like, the guitars want this to be a dark, heavy tune, but the bass line and tone are identical to a basic blues jam. The drums are also throwing me off, like mentioned above. There's a snare hit missing in there. You're on the hat instead of the snare.
 
MMM/Taras - Thanks! I'll look at the guitar tone. It's run through an Orange amp sim in Amlitube 4, so it's pretty dark. I'm hoping just some basic EQ can help that, but I'm not too opposed to retracking the guitar part. I was pushing toward exactly what Taras is describing, a dark metal guitar in a 12/8 blues jam. Maybe I'm failing, but that IS what I wanted.
The vocal effect is kind of different. I'm ducking the echo on the main vocal and bypassing it entirely on the backups which is a bit odd to normal mixing techniques. Apparently that IS working if you like it... I want to change when each backup comes in to the end of the hook and not the beginning...that will be in my next changes.
I've listened to this thing 100 times and I'm confused by the rhythm comments. The bass line was 12/8. The lead was 12/8. I did the vocal with a triplet feel...and I get that it needs a 4/4 beat? Maybe I'm not doing 12/8 justice, but I just can't dial the song back to that.
The only difference between the two mixes was the drums got pared back (pulled a bunch of hat hits and moved a bunch of snare hits to get a bit of the syncopation out or together whichever way you want to look at it. The drum beat is exactly what I played at church to go with the song. I've started taking a bit of the song there and working with real drums to get a good feel of what I want to program. Maybe someday I'll be able to mike up that kit and work with live drums, but for now the church doesn't have what it takes and I'm limited to two mikes now...58 & 2001. AND that's a lot of hassle both for me, and for the church that I just need to avoid for now.
It's late, and I'm rambling. I'm trying to read some of what I'm saying and it just isn't making sense, so I'll have to redo this comment in the morning after ZZZZs.

But I really do appreciate the comments!
 
Okay. The "abrupt start" is probably because I did a roundabout on the takes. The best take likely had the first of the bass note cut from the end of the previous. I'll look at that and at least redo the first bass part.
"Mushy" is probably from my guitar playing, but I'll try retracking that as well and see if I can get a brighter tone. Not even sure which Orange amp I used, but I saved the preset.
The bass is actually two different bass lines. I could add some destruction if you think a little distortion would be helpful. I really liked the tone clean as offset to the guitar. Makes it a lot easier to keep the mud out.
I'll work on the vocal. I like the effect, too. Probably why it's too wet. Need to do a bit of a carve and bring it into the mix. I've been experimenting with a new way (to me) of ducking the vocal. Think I'll bring it out on this and see what people think.
Look at the overheads. I know I pushed the 8k up a bit before I did the FM...

I'm going to look at that drum beat again. I pulled a bunch of the initial out and thought it sounded at least cleaner. I really don't want to go straight 4/4 on a 12/8 song, but maybe I'll try that...thump tap thump tap was just never my cup of tea...:)
 
I use a vox tonelabs pedal that I like very much-The guitar could be louder or more high end. The bass is pretty much louder than the guitar and this is a heavy deep purple sound. I have the hardest time making the midi drums work in distorted rock songs. I think once you start singing and playing the beat all is well, but the tom rolls and power opening stuff that would work with a real kit doesn't sound the same. If nothing else the kick and snare could come up and leave cymbals where they are. My other opinion/suggestion would be to change the opening arrangement-I would get to the singing faster and kick in the more busy bassline once the singing starts. Sounds like a chorus on the vocs? sometimes it seems the echo repeat is a bit too loud compared to the original, nitpicking... I like the energy in your singing! Too bad the song fades on the solo, a song like this almost requires a real featured solo!
 
Stratomaster said:
I use a vox tonelabs pedal that I like very much-The guitar could be louder or more high end. The bass is pretty much louder than the guitar and this is a heavy deep purple sound. I have the hardest time making the midi drums work in distorted rock songs. I think once you start singing and playing the beat all is well, but the tom rolls and power opening stuff that would work with a real kit doesn't sound the same. If nothing else the kick and snare could come up and leave cymbals where they are. My other opinion/suggestion would be to change the opening arrangement-I would get to the singing faster and kick in the more busy bassline once the singing starts. Sounds like a chorus on the vocs? sometimes it seems the echo repeat is a bit too loud compared to the original, nitpicking... I like the energy in your singing! Too bad the song fades on the solo, a song like this almost requires a real featured solo!
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Thanks man! I've added a bunch of top end to the guitars and high passed them at about 350Hz (and made them louder).
Completely reworked the drums in the beginning and yeah, I'm pretty happy with where the drums are after the vocals kick in.
Had to redo some bass parts and kick the first part up so it's actually even with the solo bass part (there are two bass lines going). The main bass line (when I soloed it with the drums) wasn't playing nice.
The chorus you hear is called Polar. It adds a different vibe, but basically randomizes around -5 cents and a few ms on the left and +3 cents and a few ms on the right. Quite the device. I use it in almost all my songs. Pulled the echo out just a little more (it's ducked, so it sounds more and less in spots depending on how much vocal is going on).
The song fades on the end solo because that's where my lousy guitar playing failed to come up with more line and that seemed the way to go. Forty-eight takes and I didn't have anything decent after that mark...
 
Okay, see the above response for the changes
Plus the strings are a bit louder...
There are a lot of changes, but see if you can help me with this experiment...I'm implementing my new vocal scheme. I've got an audio splitter splitting the vocal bus into four signals. Each goes to a compressor to side chain. The compressors are on the bass, guitar, string and organ buses. Each of the bus signals are fed into a three way crossover (700Hz and 5KHz) that each sends the bottom and top back to their bus pure and the mid (where the vocal sits) back into the compressors to be ducked. Some of the signal is still at full strength and only where the vocal sits is giving space. Tell me what you think of the way the sound comes back. :) Thanks!



Side note: I can already hear from all the fidgeting I've done that I'll need some vocal leveling...and the drums got a bit dark...
 
Considering starting the vocals where suggested. Sounds good to me.Need a gimmick...I'll work on that.
 
Sounds good - I would keep everything the way it is. High gain stuff, clean bass, singing guitar, side backups etc etc. There's no rules - so pick your poison and if you like it it's done.
Vocals are better i.e. whatever key you're in, and the range you use suits you. Fiddle with the intro as mentioned - it should be a quick fix. There was one section in the middle where the vocal dipped a bit for a couple of seconds, and at the end the lead (sounded) a bit lower in volume than I expected. Changing the drums worked well.
 
Definitely better for clearing up all of those crazy drums in the first mix. I still think the timing gets thrown off a bit each time there’s a drum fill though.

The bass part is good, and it has a good energy to drive the song.

Guitar tone sounds really fizzy to me, I think you’d get more power with less gain. I don’t really know much about amp sims though, so I don’t whether that’s a limitation of your software.

On the vocals – I don’t get why you’re so wedded to that pitchshifter effect on everything. For me, it makes all your vocals sound kind of metallic and masks any variation or tone. The backing vocals work well. It would be nice to hear something more natural coming through without that vocal processing – I think that’s my main criticism of the mix in general, that it sounds like a lot of artificial sounds put together. The guitars are very simmy, the drums are a bit canned sounding and the vocals are covered in that pitchshifter. I think it needs something to at least sound like it’s authentic.

It's still quite busy sounding and a bit mushy lower down, but I think mix 3 is much better than mix 1 so you're moving in the right direction.
 
The vocal tone and the keyboard remind me of a Stranglers tune. The vocal level is too uneven - needs to compression or fader rides to even it out
 
Thanks for the comments, gents. Especially like the honesty.
Bulls - I'm aware of the vocal leveling. Started working on that last night. Thanks! Stranglers were 80s English pop with lots of synth, yes? Not really popular on this side of the pond, but I assume it's complimentary, so thanks again. :)
Rob - So, maybe some straighter drum fills? I'll work on that. Bass is what I played pro for decades. Thanks for the compliments. One more vote for retrack the guitars...possibly find a good tone on the Vox instead of sim. AFA the Polar RE, I'm starting to hear it too. Think I've gone too far with that. Earlier stuff (like on Now I Understand) I really liked the way it made my voice sound. Think I need to go back and analyze what I was doing before and get closer to that sound again. I need to spend more time on vocal takes and more effort on getting the vocals better before accepting them, I think. My personal journey has led me to take some short cuts that I'm learning may be just robbing my abilities instead of improving my performances...been thinking about that a lot since the "Do you use pitch correction?" thread started.
Ido - Thanks for all the compliments. I've started working on the vocal fix already, but I'll need to do some additional tracking. I'll look at the volume on the end solo as well. Thanks for that!
 
Good tune. I dont really have anything to offer on the mix that hasnt already been addressed. I will say that I love the bass guitar tone on this and I think you have done an excellent job of meshing the bass guitar with the kick drum. It really sounds good....and nice bass playing too.
 
jimistone said:
Good tune. I dont really have anything to offer on the mix that hasnt already been addressed. I will say that I love the bass guitar tone on this and I think you have done an excellent job of meshing the bass guitar with the kick drum. It really sounds good....and nice bass playing too.
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Thanks Jimi! You always have encouraging things to say. Appreciate you, bro! Trying to use the same drum kit and bass throughout my entire 12 song project this year. It's been interesting how often people love them on one song, and hate them on another. Just goes to show that nothing is "one size fits all" in this game. :)
 
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