Starlight - alternative rock track

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Hey everyone, please share your comments on this mix. I spent about 4 weeks on it, doing only small adjustments at a time and providing for plenty of ear-rest in between mixing sessions.

The intro guitars are Amplitube 4's Orange amps through 2x12's, while the heavy chorus guitars are Amp 4's Dual/Triple Recs through 4x12's. The solo guitars are... crap, can't remember, but definitely 2x12's again, possibly Orange models too. I'm really liking the Orange brand, especially for my style of music. Bass is Ampeg SVT Pro through the matching 8x10, again Amp4. Drums are SuperiorD2 (snare is the NY Avatar's Black Beauty, while the rest is from the Rock Warehouse kit).

I think I have the bass/kick about where I want them, impact/volume-wise. I made sure those two clicked well together on their own without anything else going. Once in awhile, I'd throw in the vox bus over them, but no guitars, and it still sounded good, so I thought I hit some sweet spot, perhaps. Nice, wide mid-cuts in both kick and bass, but slightly apart. Both have a small top boost (around 7 for the kick and 2.5 for the bass).

The vocals were the biggest obstacle, and it's actually really hard for me to sing lower as I do in the verses. Even without FX or compression, there was a slight harshness in the 6-9 area, so I laid the de-essing techniques on pretty thick. Melodyne doesn't help things like that, so a better choice would be to track them better, but time doesn't allow me to and I work with what I get out of the vocals. As usual, the vox here are a combination of 12 takes, the best one from every line, sometimes even within the same line. If anyone has any tips on getting that "busted speaker/megaphone" sound, please share them with me. I use that sound in the final chorus in this song, replacing what was in earlier choruses a normal/clean vocal passage with a distorted (Saturation Knob VST) megaphone sound. My processing is: EQ (HP 500hz, LP 3khz - the most important part of that sound), compression, compression, and the sat knob. I then sent it to the drum verb bus. And yes, that autotune sound is intentional on those lines.

The chorus is double tracked with the second take about 3db's underneath. The whole song has a stereo chorus vocal (if a doubled section, then the better take only) that runs underneath it all for some thickness and spread. The rate of that chorus is the minimum since I don't want it to actually tremolo or vibrate, but the delay is 7ms, full spread, and 70% depth. One compressor catches the vocal bus peaks with a fast attack and release, and the second compressor reduces the overall volume with a very slow attack and medium release. Both compressors give 4db max reduction.

Sorry to write a book about the vocals, but I thought they were the biggest challenge and I wanted to clarify my approach. AT4040, self-made iso booth (i hung thick blankets from the ceiling tiles in the basement in a 5x5 square and used a reflection filter too).

I'm most happy with the solo section and its buildup, as well as the final chorus. I wanted the buildup to sound big, ambient, and cinematic. I was able to use my knuckles to knock on the guitar to create some feedback on the high-gain/overdriven lead guitars, and you can hear it just before the solo, during the buildup. Not having access to true/real feedback via real amps is one of my biggest complaints from using sims, but I tried and I think it worked alright here.

If Soundcloud is butchering my high end, please let me know.





Shadows in my room,
won't you run and hide?
I see them chasing you,
it's safer here inside.

Have I paid my debt?
I give what I can't keep.
The word that you regret
has taken over me.

My head is aching now.
Stop the world from shaking underground.

I can be your sunlight,
you can be my daydream,
underneath the dark skies,
beneath the moonbeams.

Break the silence now,
the whispers talk to me
about the beautiful
voices in my dreams.

Have I paid my debt?
I give what I can't keep.
The word that you regret
has taken over me.

My head is aching now.
Stop the world from shaking underground.

I can be your sunlight,
you can be my daydream
underneath the dark skies,
beneath the moonbeams.

And I'm not angry -
I've adjusted just fine
to the way you've made me.
 
Listening on HPs, Great performances all around. The main gits seem a little fizzy.. it's especially apparent in the intro before the other instruments drop in. Bass sounds great, but it sounds like you have that thing where certain notes just boom more. I notice this when it goes up into the higher registers during the verse. There are places where I wish the vocals were a little more sibilant.. especially during the chorus where the gits are really thick and dark, but I seem to want to hear things more crispy than many here. I might be going deaf. :)

All very minor nits that I wouldn't notice listening casually, overall very good production and appropriate for what I know about this style of rock.
 
Sounds like a good mix overall, I can here that fizzyness on the guitar too though.

Oh, those lead bits that come through about 3/5 of the way through aren't sitting well, put them further back maybe.

EDIT: Just noticed at the end, the snare sounds really weak and dry - only noticed it at the end thouogh - I'll re-listen in a bit and see if I notice it throughout. Checked - it is noticable throughout the song - but just more prominant during the ending, don't know why.
 
Great song as usual. The bass is still a little boomy for me, though I'm noticing it in the intro more than elsewhere. It's not really too loud, just certain notes ringing out as Fat Fleet said. Especially the first note in that ascending bass line that you repeat a lot, is it F#? When it comes to diagnosing boomy bass notes, I first want to ask myself whether the problem could be my listening environment. So there's that. I am hearing the verse vocals a little more clearly than the previous mix, so sound like you've made some progress there. I'm with JDOD and FF in noticing the kind of gritty, fizzy undertone to that opening guitar riff. I'd do something about that, personally. If it were buried in the mix, nobody would ever notice. But it's right out there in the intro. Yeah, that buildup and solo sound really good.
 
no SC swirly-cymbals?

Fizzy isn't a word I wanted to come to mind with those; dirty, yes. But certainly not fizzy. hmm. Perhaps someone will pop it into their analyzer and share where they think that fizz is. They are LP at 9khz, the intro guitars.

I think the chorus vocals have cuts around 8-9khz because "sunlight" was escaping the de-esser on the bus although it was working ok on the verse vocals. I didn't want to have 2 buses for vocals, so I made small cuts up top on the chorus vocals instead, so yeah they might be less bright in relation to the verse. Good catch.

I'm alright with the bass. Even with some notes ringing more than others.

It's really hard for me to sing "moonbeams", I forgot to mention. :) that "ooooo" isn't very smooth for me. Something to work on.

thanks guys
 
Sounds like a tremendous mix to me. I think you're operating at a level where I probably have very little to offer. I think I remember some of your first tracks shared here, and if so, you've come a long way in a very short time. Bass sounds very even to me throughout. The performances are really tight and I can tell both from listening and reading some of the OP that you're taking this shit pretty seriously. I think it shows here.

I like that sort of warble at the end of the opening guitar riffs...what is that?

I guess the telephone effect on your voice towards the very end was the only thing that kind of stood out. I didn't think that was the best sounding lo-fi voice effect I've heard. Myself, I often use a roland plug that came with my recorder called "bullhorn", but I've done it from scratch before with some success. When I want a mild effect, I run my vocal mic through my guitar amp and mic that with a 57 and EQ to taste. For a more severe effect I have combined a limiter, overdrive and a slight flanger (to hollow it out) and then EQ'd out most of the highs and lows. Maybe something to try here? Probably not...lol Sounds like you know what you're doing.
 
hey thanks. Well, considering recording/mixing replaced all my other hobbies, I suppose I'm taking it somewhat seriously. When not working, with the gf, or watching movies/tv, I am at this laptop working on some portion of a song. I probably spend 3-4 hours/day, on average, working on music.

by warble, do you mean the high pitched feedback sound? that's a synth vst called "Dexed". It's free. I change a bunch of parameters on it and compress it to hell. makes it nice and smooth since the attack is instant and release long. then lots of delay too.

i'll check out Bullhorn. thanks for that (insert exclamation point here. my key is broken) :)
 
it is noticable throughout the song - but just more prominant during the ending, don't know why.

most likely because the song is denser there. there's more going on, so that reverb tail gets lost. i could have automated the send level to the reverb there.
 
no SC swirly-cymbals?

Fizzy isn't a word I wanted to come to mind with those; dirty, yes. But certainly not fizzy. hmm. Perhaps someone will pop it into their analyzer and share where they think that fizz is. They are LP at 9khz, the intro guitars.

I find that distorted guitars can get LP as low as 6khz and lose nothing. If you look at them on a frequency analyzer there's almost nothing above that...maybe because they're naturally compressed? I'm not sure why but they just have little info up there.

I think the fizz is little lower, though, somewhere in the 1-4k range. Which guitar and pickups? That can cause spikes, too.

I feel the guitars are slightly loud relative to the vocal, too. Not much, but maybe try lowering the guitars a db and bumping the vocal the same. The vocal sounds even with the guitars instead of above them.

You can probably tame that bass note that's popping out by notching it with EQ (on my bass it always booms somewhere between 90-120hz) and/or ride the fader down when that note plays.

The mix sounds really good otherwise. The fizzy guitar isn't noticeable when all the instruments come in.
Nice one, man.
 
Last edited:
I didn't notice SC cymbals, but I did hear a pop or two (0:42)

The first "Shadows" at 0:39 seemed to have a tuning artifact or similar.

Guitars sound appropriately huge during the chorus

More artifacts seemed to build up on the vox towards the end tho.

Mostly, it was a good mix as usual. The only real nit I have is the vocal artifacts.
 
The guitars and vocal sound excellent. Great balance between the two. But I'd back off the vocal reverb just a little.

I think you over-did it on the low mid cuts to the bass and kick. They have a little sterile "bouncy ball" sound to them. The bass moreso than the kick. But both of them have a little hint of it.

I might nudge up the snare during the chorus. It gets a little lost.

But that's it for me. I thought it sounded great.
 
I find that distorted guitars can get LP as low as 6khz and lose nothing. If you look at them on a frequency analyzer there's almost nothing above that...maybe because they're naturally compressed? I'm not sure why but they just have little info up there.

I A/B the guitar bus with the LP at 10 and at 6, and there's a clear difference to me. Not because of your post, but just something I started doing awhile back. A year ago, I LP'd all my guitars at 6. But that was when I was using Ampire (my DAW's built-in sim). I've "upgraded" to Amplitube since then, and I'm liking it in the 9-10 area more. But I always A/B it in a few spots.

Really though, taking a little break (few days at least) and coming back to it helps give some clarity. I know the intro guitars are fuzzy, but I certainly wanted them to be. I'm not saying they are EXACTLY how I wanted them to sound, just that it's really close to it and the mood/vibe of some retro amp and garage-band style dirty sound is there. I'm sure further tweaking would help. Also, they are meant to be a compliment/contrast to the heavy, arena-style 4x12's in the chorus.
 
Nice stereo spread on the intro. Everything sounds good although I'm not a huge fan of the linken park style crashy cymbal/yelling vocal/sustain guitar chorus. Good tune though
 
Really strong mix andrushkiwt - I actually think the guitar gain works pretty well throughout & I like the ringing guitar line itself.

The only thing I wasn't keen on was the prominent autotune sound in some of the vocals - particularly that first verse. I think it's probably unnecessary having that much of it and the song would pack more real punch without it or with it dialed back. Other than that, all good!
 
I got nothing. This sounds great. I'm striving for something very much like what you do. Full, in every way, and smooth and clear. I really like this sound.
 
Really strong mix andrushkiwt - I actually think the guitar gain works pretty well throughout & I like the ringing guitar line itself.

The only thing I wasn't keen on was the prominent autotune sound in some of the vocals - particularly that first verse. I think it's probably unnecessary having that much of it and the song would pack more real punch without it or with it dialed back. Other than that, all good!

yeah, first verse takes were not very good. the raw ones. i tried to meldyne it easy, but got carried away on some parts. the final chorus, however, was very intentional with the autotune sound; particularly "underneath the" and "beneath the". first verse, i went overboard with the touchups. i think it adds to the character, in some way. i don't mind that kind of stuff, never did. wouldn't bother me one bit if someone autotuned an entire song... the final result is what i care about. but i do understand what you mean. thanks for listening.
 
Back
Top