Standing on the Corner in the Rain w\ Nick and Dave

R

Robus

Well-known member
Hi all. About a year ago I posted a demo of this song with programmed drums and my own vocals. Here's the group effort, with easlern on vocals and ibleedburgundy on drums.

I've been working to get the lead and harmony vocals blended and sat in the mix. All suggestions welcome. Thanks!

Newest mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzqJIqBR8uJeWF95a3hjcmZpUG8/view?usp=sharing

Standing on the Corner in the Rain
Words and Music by Ray Taylor, 2016

Something called you back
To the neighborhood
And the city blocks
Where all the doors were closed
But the weed felt good
And they died seeking sympathy from an easy queen
In the back of my econoline van in the park
You said I was your man

There was no mistaking you
For anyone at all
In the street I watched you walk
Watched them spin and fall
Then we rose
Like a weed through the concrete grows

There was something very sure, I know
Guided in the age of reason’s glow

Hey, hey, hey
Just another day
Another souped up summer in the city by
Even hearts run dry
Well I danced alone, you danced alone
And a nod to say goodbye
Standing on the corner in the rain
Standing on the corner in the rain

There was one very sure I know
Lighted in the age of reason’s glow

Standing on the corner
Had an altercation
Just a consultation
All about a lady
If you got the mind to please me
Well I’ll not walk away
If you picked the time to tease me
You know how I wanted you that day
Standing on the corner in the rain
Standing on the corner in the rain
 
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I liked this song. Very catchy melody. Lead and fill guitar sounded very good. great performances all the way around. I guess my only nit would be that I'm not crazy about the snare drum sound. It's a little boxy sounding and low pitched for the context of the song IMO. Also, it could use some reverb I think.
 
This sounds really good, agree with jimi the snare sounds a little off, tone wise. Almost sounds dampened. Can you EQ that frequency out and/or give a mild boost to the snare crack? Are the drums recorded in a small, dead room? That's what it sounds like. Maybe add a bit of a larger reverb to them as well. Very light, though, where it's barely audible. On headphones, I hear what sounds like artifacts or very mild phase/comb filtering on the lead vocal with some harshness on the sibilant notes - is it a cheap/Chinese condenser mic? I always hear this on those mics, which is why I don't own any. The song is what stands out and supersedes any recording issues. Really love the ebb and flow, tension and resolution of the parts. Good dynamics in slowing down and picking up, etc. My gf heard it last night and liked it, too. We both agreed it's your best song. Really like the song. The recording, it's good enough to get the song across just fine with a few minor issues. Guitars sound great.
 
And by the way, Robus, great job on that chorus edit. Didn't notice a thing and that's what I was craving on the first version.

Ps. I just re-read your email from last night, and maybe the "phasing" I am hearing is the doubled vocal. I missed that question last night b/c I was so tired when reading it. Great decision in raising the solo vs the earlier version, too. I thought it was a new take. Sounds great louder. A little more "cutting loose" than your past solos, which I appreciated.
 
Thanks guys. I'll have a look at that snare. I have a fair amount of latitude in the adjustments I can make to the snare, as Dave always sends me the top and bottom mics on separate tracks. Balancing those two gives me a lot of control over the tone, while balancing the level of the snare tracks relative to the overheads and and other tracks that pick up snare bleed gives me still more. All that is before I even begin to EQ.

The drums are probably on the dry side, which is where I always start out. They may need more reverb.

Interesting to hear the comment about phase/filtering on the lead vocal. I'll give this another listen. The lead vocal is doubled throughout. Nick and I had been talking about moving away from the doubling, but he sent me a number of vocal takes to comp together, enough to build up a lead track and a double too. So I couldn't resist. However the double is very low in comparison to the lead, about -18db below it. It is barely audible, but I can hear a slight thickening when I add it to the lead track. Of course, the reason I've set the double so low is to avoid those filtering problems you mention, which have been a consistent pain in the ass in the past. I've been going lower and lower on the double with each mix. It's to the point where I could do without the double, but I do like that slight thickening and the added level of control that it gives me.

So I'll need to check it to find out if what you are hearing is interaction between the lead and double. Sometimes the compression and ambiance on the lead vocal tracks can make those effects more audible. Something else to look into. Also, I'll need to have another look at the EQ on the vocals. Finally, I'm not totally happy with the reverb on the lead vocal, both in terms of level and the particular patch I'm using. Need to experiment more there.

I did some manual de-essing on the vocal, as well as some edits to reduce the hard K's, T's, etc. Still more work to do there.

How do the kick and bass sound? This had been a P bass song throughout its journey--until last night when I retracked the bass using a Jazz. To my ears the change really opens up the mix. As I was telling Nola, I love the sound of a P bass--in somebody else's hands. In my music, the Jazz just seems more conducive to that open, airy sounding mix that I crave. I own both basses and often will audition both, but the J usually wins out.

BTW, Nola suggested a change in the arrangement--repeating that part that goes "standing on the corner in the rain." I liked that suggestion and went with it.
 
Robus, it could be that doubled vocal causing the phasing/artifacts, or it could be that mic or even the room. I'd be curious to hear the isolated vocal take to narrow it down. I also agree the vocal reverb could be better. It sounds like a small room reverb, and I think you can get away with a bit more depth. Maybe try a plate. I love them on vocals, but they are usually huge so you have to shorten the tail and maybe mess with the predelay and ERs. But nothing sounds better on a vocal than a plate imo, genre and style depending of course, but on this tune I think you can get away with it.
 
Hey Robus, nice tune. Love the Tele quack on the leads and fills (assuming it's a Tele) Sounds like the main solo at the end panned a little to the right? I would have it more center, but that's a taste thing mostly.

Acoustic sounds nice, clean and crisp, better than any acoustic I've ever recorded. I can also see what you mean why a J-Bass sounded better on this tune.

I don't really notice anything strange about the vocal, can't even tell it's doubled really. Backgrounds sound nice.

Snare doesn't sound too bad, just seems a little thin I think.
 
Thanks Johnny. You're no slouch on guitar yourself. Yeah, totally Tele. Here's the setup:

e5a2dd1c-642d-445e-829e-a6f587ec151f.jpg

It's a very bright, ash body Tele through my 15 watt Trace-Elliot Velocette combo, an all tube Class A amp with a Celestion V10 speaker. That's my go-to amp for playing those countrified Tele leads. It's also a loud little amp. The guitar and microphone cables pass under the bedroom door, around the corner, and under the door of the room where I am playing. That way I can monitor through my studio speakers at a comfortable level and not have to mess around with tracking headphones, cue mixes, and crap like that. Makes a world of difference to me.

I used a mid/side arrangement to mic the acoustic guitar.
 
Sweet, nice Tele. I use to have that exact same amp. It was loud, but sounded good. I never recorded with it, but used it live quite a bit in tandem with my Twin. It then sat collecting dust for a few years after I got a second combo amp, so I ended up selling it.
 
A Twin, that's a grownup's amp. I love the sound of them, but for home recording they are not practical. Did you ever have trouble with the output transformer in your Velocette? The original transformers were underbuilt and tended to burn out. It happened to mine. Trace-Elliot replaced the transformer under warranty and sent me a spare transformer for good measure! Never had to use it.
 
Heard something weird in the bass at about 44/45 secs, and you probably should trim the end of the bass at the very end of the song where you can distinctly hear another note during the fade out where it should just hold.

Those additional edge of audibility vocals at about 3.00 don't really add anything to the song IMO, apart from being a distraction, and I'd tend to generally up the BVs a dB or two wherever they appear.

The spanky Tele playing at the end sounds good, but I see it as a bit of a wasted opportunity - from about 3.20 it seems like it should kick up a gear and play something higher and quicker to bring it to a rushing end, but you've got so much delay on it that you're sort of stuck with that style of basic pentatonic shape playing - your song, but if it were me, I'd rethink that ending, reduce the delay a fair bit, not be so interested in getting the quacky harmonic sound, and find something more interesting to fill the space.

Ever hear latter day Steely Dan? The last two albums? When Becker decided to take over guitar playing, for whatever reason? He rarely does anything even vaguely interesting because he just ain't that good - but who's going to tell him? Steely Dan was best when it had good guitar players. It's his style of playing that I think of when I hear the end of the song. It's not wrong, it's just not much.

In my head I'm hearing something going along way faster at the end with an earlier fade out...

Obviously I'm going way past mix suggestions here, so ignore me at will.

Other than that, sounds pretty good.
 
Robus said:
Thanks Johnny. You're no slouch on guitar yourself. Yeah, totally Tele. Here's the setup:

View attachment 99233

It's a very bright, ash body Tele through my 15 watt Trace-Elliot Velocette combo, an all tube Class A amp with a Celestion V10 speaker. That's my go-to amp for playing those countrified Tele leads. It's also a loud little amp. The guitar and microphone cables pass under the bedroom door, around the corner, and under the door of the room where I am playing. That way I can monitor through my studio speakers at a comfortable level and not have to mess around with tracking headphones, cue mixes, and crap like that. Makes a world of difference to me.

I used a mid/side arrangement to mic the acoustic guitar.
Click to expand...
Nice tele and amp Robus!
Im building a replica (well, in the ballpark) of a 1966 tele to be a mate to my vintage 1966 strat. I'm thinking about putting a bucker, instead of the lipstick pickup, on the neck though.
I have tried putting an amp in an isolation room for recording. It is, as you say, comfortable and enables rcording with no phones and monitoring and much lower volume...for some things it is very nice. But, for the blues guitar style and the classic rock style that I play, mostly with a tube amp, it dosen't work very well. Isolating the amp from the guitar seriously hinders the interaction between the amp and guitar. I like to hold a note and let it feedback and blossom into that high ring. You can't get that with the amp isolated...you have to have the guitar in the same space as the amp. For a spanky chicken pickin country guitar solo or a solo where you are getting artificial crunch and feedback, with a pedal of some sor,t it works pretty well to isolate the amp for me.

Sorry, to stray off topic...not trying to hijack your thread.
 
I thought this was really good. Nice balance on things. Clean guitars and vocal sound nice.

There is a clean guitar on the right that is a bit stronger than anything countering it on the right. It's during the verses. So the mix becomes slightly right-heavy in certain sections.

I thought the drums sounded excellent. I personally like the snare sound. There is a ride cymbal or something that's a bit prominent. But other than that, I really liked the drums.

Too much reverb on the vocal for me.
 
New mix in the OP. I worked mainly on the lead and harmony vocals. New EQ, reverb, and some additional leveling on the lead vocal.

On the drums, I lowered the level of the overheads and did some work on the snare.
 
I don't think I have ever heard you post anything bad on this site Robus. Good job. The only thing that stuck out to me(and was probably intentional) was the verb on the lead vocal. It was pretty prominent...reminds me of some 70's style vox....but again probably what you were shooting for. I will say that the low end of the vocal seemed a little muddy and I am wondering if your low frequency verb reflections are the culprit. I am listening on headphones so just take that for what its worth. GREAT job you three!
 
Thanks man! I assume you heard the second mix. I took the verb down some, but still not happy with it. I usually EQ out a lot of low mid when I mix Nick. I added back just a little bit on this second mix in order to try to get a more natural sound. Maybe I erred too much in that direction.
 
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You got some of the brightness out of the vocal and lead guitar, yeah? Pretty smooth now. Melody wise, this is probably my favorite. Something about your lyrics and Nick's voice works really well.

I'm not hearing anymore ess-ing. Whatever you did worked. Actually, at this point, now that it's under control, I'd look at a shelf boost around 1db at 3k to liven them up a little. They are more on the dark side now, but not unnaturally.The Tele still has that twang, but not piercing. Nice neutral mix, to me.

I like the final solo, and I think it's distinctive enough. Great job everyone.
 
Robus said:
A Twin, that's a grownup's amp. I love the sound of them, but for home recording they are not practical. Did you ever have trouble with the output transformer in your Velocette? The original transformers were underbuilt and tended to burn out. It happened to mine. Trace-Elliot replaced the transformer under warranty and sent me a spare transformer for good measure! Never had to use it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, didn't see this question until just now. Nope, never had a problem with the Velocette, only sold it because I wasn't using it anymore. Kind of wish I still had it. I do seem to remember the friend I sold it to said it needed something a short while later though, might have been a transformer but I forget, was a few years ago.

I've still yet to ever record an actual amp, I'm dying to try it with my Twin soon, all I have though are a few SM-58s. I hear 57s are better for recording guitar, so might have to pick one up before I try it. When you say Twins aren't practical for home recording, are you referring to how loud you have to crank them to get the best sound? I actually own a somewhat rare Twin from '97, it's not a Twin Reverb, it's the 3-channel one that was just called "The Twin". The thing is awesome.

I do plan on checking out your newer post tonight btw, once I'm done with tonight's fun of re-mixing that one tune I just re-did the drums for.
 
Yeah, I know of "The Twin" though I've never played through one. I'd love to have a Twin Reverb, but the issue is volume. All my amps are in the 15-40 watt range and I'm usually tracking them loud. I can only imagine what that 80 watt, twin speaker behemoth would do to the window panes and foundations of my house.
 
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