"Roadstar" New Drums

JohnnyAmato

JohnnyAmato

New member
Definitely enjoying the long overdue change to ProTools from the stand-alone Tascam and Boss BR-8 that I used for years. As I'm still finishing up the lyrics for the last two songs I posted, I wanted to re-do the drums with Superior Drummer on this older song I did about two years ago. It's helping me to learn ProTools and SD before I embark on more important future recordings.

I did actually post this one about a year ago, as I was working on the mix, and got it to sound as good as I could. But since I transferred all the tracks to ProTools, it was like starting over since the number system for the fader levels is quite different from my old Tascam. Did the math, used my ears, got it as even as I could, and went from there.

Re-did the drums, re-mixed it, and this is where I am. Seems a little mid-range heavy maybe? The original lead guitar tracks are stereo, they were recorded with a stereo delay. Probably too much delay, actually, but it is what it is :/

Bassline was straight from a sim (board), no processing at all yet.

Roadstar (Demo) | Johnny Amato
 
Once again, great playing. Nice leads. Either the drums can come up or the lead guitars down. Drums are waaay in the back on this one. Looks like you got the cymbals off hard left and right, did you end up doing the x-drums?
 
Thanks. Yep, did 3 X-drums for the cymbals that were panned way L&R, in combination with bringing the panning slightly in on the OH track. They still seem a bit too panned, but bringing them in any further just didn't sound right, they were too centered.

Funny, at first I thought the drums were too hot, so last minute before uploading the tune I brought the whole kit down like 1.5db. I guess I probably should've left it. I was a little concerned about the leads also, felt they were a tad hot, but was reluctant to bring them down some. Thanks.
 
I remember this one from when you posted before. Great playing. Nice stereo sound to the lead guitars. I'm with Andrushkiwt, drums could come up.
 
Great guitar playing. Think the drums could come up just a little more, the toms more than the snare. Have you thought about putting a humanizer plug in on it - ir manually changing the MIDI volumes? (the snare hits all seem the same volume)
 
I agree with Mike that the kit could use a little more, although at this point I'd try out turning the lead guitars down a db or so and see how that works. I understand they're the main focus, but they could withstand a small notch down, in my opinion, and not lose anything.

I was talking with Easlern the other day about personal websites for music. Any opinions on it so far? How do you like it?
 
Thanks guys. I'll turn the toms up the hair, then the kit as a whole a little more, and try lowering the leads a touch more to see how it sits. I did vary the velocities on the kit, but only a little. I guess I'm so used to my old DR-770 drum machine that any velocity changes really stick out to me with this new SD software, so I'm always leery to do it too drastically.

As far as websites go, I like BandCamp because it lets you upload waves, when most sites only allow mp3s. But I also have ReverbNation, Broadjam, and Soundcloud, but rarely update them. I use BandCamp to post songs here, and at my Facebook page occasionally, which I have three; my main FB page, my artist page (same name) and one for my band, the Johnny Amato Band. Works great for advertising shows.
 
Here's a cool trick that I have been using lately that makes panned cymbals in virtual drum sets I bit more real. If you have cymbals coming out of individual channels like I do, to be stereo summed later, use a Haas effect to put a bit of a delayed iteration of it in the opposite stereo field. So if I have a crash cymbal panned ay 75% left, a small bit of it comes out at 75% right. The listener STILL hears said cymbal panned, but now it doesn't sound so lonely and "canned" because the early reflection coming of the opposite wall of your virtual "drum room" gives it a "live" sound. Here is one that is free FREE HAAS DELAY PLUGIN | vescoFx.com
 
Ditto on the guitar playing. Very nice leads.

I think the lead guitar is pretty loud. Everything else is really pushed back.

I think the drums sound ok. But they sound a bit canned. Every snare hit sounds the same.

The mix as a whole is fairly narrow. Can you widen the overheads. If you lower the lead guitar, so that everything else is louder by comparison, it might widen the mix. The rhythm guitars could use a little more bite so the stick out a little more.
 
Thanks TripleM. I narrowed the OHs a bit because the crashes in Superior Drummer are panned way too hard L & R in the default Avatar kit. I made a few more Cymbals with X-drums and panned them closer in, but a few cymbals and the ride were still in with the OH track. Narrowing it probably affected the kit as a whole a little too much.

I do plan on messing with velocities a bit more, especially on the snare. As I stated earlier, I'm so used to my older drum machine (that had no adjustable velocity settings) that any velocity variations with this new SD really stand out to me, so I'm hesitant to do it heavily. My velocity range on the snare, for example, is like 124-127. Probably not enough.

I was struggling a little as to where to have those rhythm guitars, so I might have them a little low. I'll bring those up a tad and lower the leads and see where it goes.

Thanks a bunch for the input :)
 
JohnnyAmato said:
My velocity range on the snare, for example, is like 124-127. Probably not enough.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's a Studio One Pro thing or what, but my MIDI velocities go from 0-100. I know nearly everyone else states 127 is tops, but not in my MIDI editor. Anyways....

I set my snare anywhere from 50-75 (ghost notes) to 80-92 (verses, softer sections) to 92-99.5 (chorus/heavy parts). If I use both (virtual) hands on the snare (think Teen Spirit intro drum fill - double hit), I'll be sure to make each hand in the same beat a different velocity. Since most ppl know that song, and the intro fill, I'd write out the very first snare hit as 96.4, one hand, and 97.53, second hand, for example. Of course, those are just numbers that popped into my head, and I'd consider adjusting them in context of the song, but that was just to give you an idea of where a 96 velocity on snare might be appropriate. For the outro, most snare hits would be in the 96-99 range, if I were writing it out. Verses, I'd probably stick to the 84-90 range for snare hits.

Hope that helped and made sense.
 
That was cool. Cliffs of Dover feel to it.
I think you're smart to make the lead guitars loud and the vocal point. I wouldn't change that. You don't want balance with this you want those leads to pop out as the star.

The cymbal hits on the same beat each time in the background bugged me. That's about it.
 
Thanks Andru for the info. I'm going to mess with the drums on this one again soon, I already have a newer mix, but haven't messed with the velocities yet. The last two days I've been busy working on a new recording. I'll post the newest mix soon after I tweak the velocities again.

Thanks for the listen and input, Nola. In the newer mix that I haven't posted yet, I did turn the leads down again, but just a hair. Brought up the rhythm guitars a tiny bit, and adjusted a few levels on the drum kit and spread out the OHs a bit more. The constant cymbal hits after every measure actually has bugged me too, that's how the original recording was, so I just went with it. I was curious if anyone would notice that, and you're the first that did, so I might just cut a few out for variation and add a few in some other spots, thanks. I should get to posting a fresh re-mix in a day or so, my focus the last few days is on another recording I'm finishing, more of a jazzy blues thing. Will most likely post that one as well. Thanks!
 
Worked a little on this tune last night, not sure if I made it any better or destroyed it :)

Raised the drum kit a little, widened the OHs a bit (had them kind of narrow, good ear TripleM) Had a little reverb on my Room mics but got rid of it (not sure if this is the norm or not) Seemed to clean up the drums a little. Also worked a bit on the velocities.

Lowered the leads some and raised the rhythm guitar tracks a tad.

Left the bass alone, it's straight up with no compression or EQ at all.

Messed with the crashes a little, but taking some out just didn't sound right to me. The crashes on the end of the beats are actually on the "and", and the hat hits are on the counts, so taking the crashes out left nothing but a naked kick hit every time and sounded goofy to me (if that makes sense). Maybe I'm just so used to hearing it this way.

Roadstar (Demo) | Johnny Amato
 
Did you try the crash on the 1 and something like an open high hat on the &? Maybe something like that then alternate every other 1 beat with a crash and splash for variation. I might be too focused on that cymbal, though, so it could be a me problem. If you aren't bothered by it then roll with it
 
Thanks for the suggestions, Nola. It's one of those weird beats that literally has nothing on the one, not even a kick. All those crashes at the end of the measures are on the "and" just after the 4, before the "1", which I suppose is why they sound strange to me without a crash. Putting any kind of hat there, open or closed, also sounds weird to me, ends up being 3 quick hats in a row and sticks out in a funny way. Even the very first kick in the song is on the "and" just before the first initial "1" starts.

I will give those crashes one more look and try a few things. But considering it's just a quick one minute song, I'll probably just leave it as is and go with it, once I get the actual mix as good as I can. I think it's close now, giving it a few days rest while I'm working on other songs. Thanks again :)
 
Sounds good to me. Real nice playing on the leads. You can fly man.

I am not crazy about the drums. Nothing terrible, they're just not nearly as good as the guitars. A couple things. Some of the cymbal accents seem a bit too predictable. The cymbals themselves sound too dark and like there weren't enough different cymbal sounds. Overall just a bit flat. Levels are decent enough IMO.
 
Thanks Burgundy.

Still getting used to this whole Superior Drummer thing, haven't had it very long at all. Cymbals and crashes are giving me the hardest time, but I'm making progress.
 
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