Reaper Project File - critique my mix

S

sumpm1

New member
Hey guys. I do acoustic covers on youtube, and have finally got some decent recording equipment for this; but my monitors, just using sony bookshelfs, lack high freq response. So I would like to know if the levels and eq are good in the following mix.

The file is a Reaper .RPP project file, you can modify it and tinker with it all you like. Let me know what you think of these things: track levels, track effects, and eq levels.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0gnkwjij2gj
 
post an mp3 on soundclick or something and I'll tell you how it sounds, we don't need the project file for that
 
Okay good song. First off, why do all of your raw tracks sound like crap??? They're buzzing and clipping all over the place! Also, you keep adding high freqs to things and it's just making them hiss. You need monitors and better equipment if it sounds like that raw.
 
squibble94 said:
Okay good song. First off, why do all of your raw tracks sound like crap??? They're buzzing and clipping all over the place! Also, you keep adding high freqs to things and it's just making them hiss. You need monitors and better equipment if it sounds like that raw.
Click to expand...

Here is an mp3 mixdown for everyone: http://www.mediafire.com/?23yywoddzmq


Thank you for listening, and giving some feedback. You think ALL of the raw tracks sound like crap, or just the vocals. Because the guitar is line in from a Baggs m1a acoustic pickup; so not much for me to mess with there. I don't see any clipping in any of the individual tracks. Are you saying that one of the tracks is clipping? Or that the master is clipping? I have a limiter on the master bus, so that may be why you are getting clipping on the master; but wait, shouldn't a limiter prevent any clipping?

With the vocals, there are 2 mics, one dynamic Audio Technica, and one ld Audio Technica condensor. I am recording the same performance with both mics, and then mixing them together.

I sing very closely to the dynamic mic, and further away from the condensor. This was one of the only ways that I could get a consistent recording from this dynamic mic without getting too much clipping, and without turning up the preamps any more.

But you are saying that some tracks are "hissing" because of the high freq eq. So that definitely tells me that my monitors lack high freq response; so thanks for that.

How about the low freq's? Is it too bassy?
 
Nice song, and you have a nice voice.

But that recording does it no justice. All your tracks have an annoying "sizzle" to them. I don't know if that's because of over-compensation since you say that your speakers don't re-produce high end well.

Or, it may be that somewhere along your signal path, you're sending a too-hot signal.

I opened the REAPER project and I see that none of your tracks are clipping, though a few of them are coming very close, like -0.1db. You never need to record that hot. The fact that they're not clipping on your channel strips means that's not where the harsh sizzle is coming from....BUT, the fact that the signal is that hot coming in could mean, like I said before, that somewhere along the line, you're overloading something.

The old "record as hot as you can without going in the red" doesn't apply to 24bit digital recording. Your tracks can (and should) peak way below zero, like -6 or even lower.
 
Vox could works better with less compression (plus you are deessing + comp).
Highs...everybody talked about, 20dbs of gain in every channel is a sign that something is going wrong with your monitoring(+room).
Vox could be better with less compression (and you are de essing + comp)
Dynamic mic comp (out) is clipping (and this mic does not sounds good)

Song is great, your performance is fine too:)
(looks like you´re using some "autotune" type on vocal? - maybe not a problem on this song, but a bad idea when recording miked guitar/vox at same time).
I like the delays and reverbs.

Ciro
 
Thanks for listening and for the tips guys.

RAMI said:
The old "record as hot as you can without going in the red" doesn't apply to 24bit digital recording. Your tracks can (and should) peak way below zero, like -6 or even lower.
Click to expand...

Of my 2 vocal tracks, they seem to peak around -4db. And the guitar is just a line in, so I can easily turn that down at the source. The "sizzle" you refer to, is it there if you mute the fx on the track?

CIRO said:
Vox could works better with less compression (plus you are deessing + comp).
Highs...everybody talked about, 20dbs of gain in every channel is a sign that something is going wrong with your monitoring(+room).
Vox could be better with less compression (and you are de essing + comp)
Dynamic mic comp (out) is clipping (and this mic does not sounds good)

Song is great, your performance is fine too:)
(looks like you´re using some "autotune" type on vocal? - maybe not a problem on this song, but a bad idea when recording miked guitar/vox at same time).
I like the delays and reverbs.
Ciro
Click to expand...

There is some auto tune there; I used Melodyne. And I am aware that a live performance with an an instrument and vocals can work not-so-well because the instrument then gets auto tuned. That is the MAIN reason that the dynamic mic is even in the mix. I use the dynamic mic track as a guide in Melodyne, so it doesn't get confused by the guitar that the condensor mic picks up a little bit. Actually, the mix sounds better to my ears with ONLY the condensor mic, but then I cannot use auto tune, which I believe puts the final touches on my vocals.

Thanks again for the comments guys.
 
sumpm1 said:
Here is an mp3 mixdown for everyone: http://www.mediafire.com/?23yywoddzmq


Thank you for listening, and giving some feedback. You think ALL of the raw tracks sound like crap, or just the vocals. Because the guitar is line in from a Baggs m1a acoustic pickup; so not much for me to mess with there. I don't see any clipping in any of the individual tracks. Are you saying that one of the tracks is clipping? Or that the master is clipping? I have a limiter on the master bus, so that may be why you are getting clipping on the master; but wait, shouldn't a limiter prevent any clipping?

With the vocals, there are 2 mics, one dynamic Audio Technica, and one ld Audio Technica condensor. I am recording the same performance with both mics, and then mixing them together.

I sing very closely to the dynamic mic, and further away from the condensor. This was one of the only ways that I could get a consistent recording from this dynamic mic without getting too much clipping, and without turning up the preamps any more.

But you are saying that some tracks are "hissing" because of the high freq eq. So that definitely tells me that my monitors lack high freq response; so thanks for that.

How about the low freq's? Is it too bassy?
Click to expand...


The guitar sounded fine after I took some high frequencies out. And yeah, I think it was the limiter that was causing the clipping. Limiters do cause distortion if you push them too hard. And the Bass is fine.
 
Last edited:
squibble94 said:
Here are my mixes

Audio: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6446045/Tennessee Line.wav

RPP: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6446045/Tennessee Line.zip
Click to expand...

Thank you for the thorough remix, I like the changes; you must also be a Reaper user, it helps to be able to share projects like this! I have some questions for you about the changes you made:

1. The raw tracks: The condensor vocal mic certainly seems that you have increased the volume of the file. Did you process it in another program? Or use some function in Reaper; perhaps glued it? How did you "normalize" the raw tracks?

1a. Instead of having to increase the volume of these files, should I adjust the preamp on my interface for those tracks? I thought my incoming levels were okay, and I hate to add any more preamp!


2. The guitars: I see you copied the guitar track and panned one left and one right. Did you do anything to either of these tracks to add a "delay" type separation in these two tracks? Edit: upon inspection, it does seem that you somehow delayed one of the guitar tracks, but not in the properties: So how did you achieve this?

3. Your modifications to fx chains: You cleaned up the fx chains, and it seems that you have some preferences for these fx.; such as the compressor and its settings. Did you you not hear a need for a "DeEsser" on the vocal tracks as I had put on them?

Thanks again, this is really nice to be able to modify the projects and see changes.
 
sumpm1 said:
Thank you for the thorough remix, I like the changes; you must also be a Reaper user, it helps to be able to share projects like this! I have some questions for you about the changes you made:

1. The raw tracks: The condensor vocal mic certainly seems that you have increased the volume of the file. Did you process it in another program? Or use some function in Reaper; perhaps glued it? How did you "normalize" the raw tracks?

1a. Instead of having to increase the volume of these files, should I adjust the preamp on my interface for those tracks? I thought my incoming levels were okay, and I hate to add any more preamp!


2. The guitars: I see you copied the guitar track and panned one left and one right. Did you do anything to either of these tracks to add a "delay" type separation in these two tracks? Edit: upon inspection, it does seem that you somehow delayed one of the guitar tracks, but not in the properties: So how did you achieve this?

3. Your modifications to fx chains: You cleaned up the fx chains, and it seems that you have some preferences for these fx.; such as the compressor and its settings. Did you you not hear a need for a "DeEsser" on the vocal tracks as I had put on them?

Thanks again, this is really nice to be able to modify the projects and see changes.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm a Sonar to Reaper convert :D

1. The condensor track did look low in volume, so I right clicked the track, item processing>Normalize selected items

2. You had a plugin on one track that I thought kind of uneven. I think it was the LOSER delay or something. It sounded like the right channel was louder than the left when I did it, so I just decided to do it the old fashioned way. I zoomed in pretty closely, then I selected the clip and hit the right key on my numpad a few times (also 6 on the numpad). Then I panned them to give it that stereo sound. If you don't have a numpad, then you can turn off the snap to grid setting and just slide the clip manually.

3. Yes I did clean up the FX a little. I basically took every effect off and started from scratch. Then I just did some of the standard stuff like compression on the vox and guitar. I set everything according to the audio. I looked at where the audio was peaking on the compressor and then set the threshold. Then to actually get the compressor to work, I set the ratio. I pretty much left everything else the same. I EQed differently too. I didn't think you needed a de-esser at all. I think the EQ you had on it was causing those harsh sounds. The highs were pushed up a lot. I would say only to use a de-esser if your "s"es sound like your lisping. Also a small technique when it comes to EQing, try taking frequencies out before you start boosting things. Once you have everything taken out that you want taken out, you can add your highs, mids, or lows. This is just how I do it though.

When I took the limiter off of the master FX, the raw tracks sounded better. Also, I noticed there was A LOT of mic bleed. You should wear headphones when tracking with microphones. They don't need to be awesome headphones, just something that you can hear with.

~squibble94 :D
 
squibble94 said:
Also, I noticed there was A LOT of mic bleed...
Click to expand...

The acoustic guitar and vocals were all recorded in one take; so the mics are picking up the acoustic. And those vocal tracks have been pitch processed with Melodyne; so bleeding acoustic is bad when de-tuned. That is why I had the condensor track lower in volume than the condensor mic.
 
sumpm1 said:
The acoustic guitar and vocals were all recorded in one take; so the mics are picking up the acoustic. And those vocal tracks have been pitch processed with Melodyne; so bleeding acoustic is bad when de-tuned. That is why I had the condensor track lower in volume than the condensor mic.
Click to expand...

Ohh okay. I gotcha. You might want to try recording everything separately then.
 
If I had the luxury to record the tracks separately I would have. But this whole project is to perfect my recording setup for live recordings for youtube videos; requiring a live take...
 
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