Problems with acoustic guitar mix

W

WolfandWeather

New member
Hi, I haven't posted here before but I'm become incredibly frustrated with a mix I'm working on so hopefully you guys can help.

Basically, I'm trying to record a fingerstyle acoustic guitar part for a song but no matter how many different recording techniques I try and no matter how I process the part in the mix, I'm never satisfied with the result. I don't know how many times I've gone back and re-recorded the part only to find that it still doesn't sit right when I listen back the next day. I don't know if it's the guitar, the mic, the mic placement, the room, my playing, my mixing, or perhaps a combination of all of them. Maybe it actually sounds fine and it's all in my head!

This take was recorded with a Rode M3 positioned about a foot away from the guitar and angled down from above, with the capsule aimed just above the soundhole.

What I'm going for is a warm, woody, mellow tone but I can't seem to get there. There's a harsh kind of high end sizzle I'm hearing in the high strings and some annoying overtones in the mids but I haven't been able to eq any of that out without turning the whole thing into a muddy mess. Any suggestions about how I can soften the track and smooth out all of the problems I'm hearing will be really useful because at this point, I just need to crack on and finish the rest of the mix.

Here's a snippet of the song with the raw acoustic guitar track: View attachment Fading Roses (Rough Mix).mp3
(Please feel free to comment on any improvements I can make elsewhere in the mix)

Thanks!
 
I'd try notching the acoustic ~150Hz and add a little ~4k. A bit of boom around that low area.
For the strings, maybe take a bit away from the 750-800Hz area. The sound thick there.
Maybe add a bit of low shelf starting around 70 Hz for that warmth you were seeking.
Seems a tad shallow down there.
 
The strings on the left are way too loud, they overwhelm the guitar's sound. The guitar sounds fine, except too much string squeak - you should work on your style, picking up your fingers more, or try some coated strings. If you're not happy with the sound, maybe its the guitar itself - if it doesn't sound the way you want, you'll never get the right sound when recorded. Remember your ears hear it differently than the mic/room hears it. You could try a second mic pointed at the lower bout.
 
Thanks for replying. I kind of want to strings to overwhelm the guitar though! The guitar isn't meant to be a focal point in that section so I don't want to the high notes to come through as prominently as they do at the moment. In fact, that's the problem; the guitar is just too present.
You might be right about that just being the sound of the guitar though. I don't have a second mic or a second mic preamp on my interface but is there any other way, short of using a different guitar, that I could mellow out the highs without making it sound unnatural?

Sammydix, did you mean a low shelf on the guitar or the strings? I did cut some of those mids out of the strings as you suggested but I quite like how they sound at the moment so I'd prefer to fit the guitar around the strings rather than the other way around.
I added a high pass to the guitar and notched at 100 to remove the boom and allow the kick to come through a little more and that has helped. What's the reason for the boost at 4k though? I am a little wary about boosting anything in that area because I'm trying to soften those high strings as much as possible.

EDIT: How about using a multi-band compressor to squash the highs a bit? Theoretically, shouldn't that pull back those pesky high notes and also remove a bit of finger squeak? I don't have much experience with multi-band compressors though and I'm having trouble isolating the problem frequencies. I can't seem to find a setting that doesn't dull the whole track.
 
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"I'd prefer to fit the guitar around the strings rather than the other way around."
My suggestion wasn't for that, it was for them to work together as well as in the mix as a whole, not to have one override the other. Just a suggestion.
Judging from the sound of the acoustic, I'd either move the notch up to about 150 or add another. Mind you, when I say "notch" I'm talking small amouts, not complete sound-changing degrees.

The 4k was for more guitar presence, and I just read that's not what you necessarily want.
I don't feel the "warmth" in the recording, so that's why suggested something added around the 70Hz.
Perhaps not a shelf (and I meant over the full mix), but something seems missing down there to me.

Just for the record, I never speak in terms of "drastic". More like a db or two or less.
 
Is it lacking warmth over the whole recording or just in the middle section with the acoustic guitar and strings? If so, it could be that I've high passed the cello a bit too much and I could probably bring back some warmth by pulling the filter back a bit. If it's also lacking when the drums and bass kick in though, I could add something to the master bus.
 
Personally I gave up on micing my acoustic guitar for recording. It never seems to work out correctly. Having to EQ the instrument later means it's tonal quality was not captured when recording. So, I solved this by purchasing the Aura Spectrum DI Imaging box and then I downloaded the images I needed. It solved the problem and now I have all kinds of different mixtures I can record with. Check it out, it's worth it.
 
Ah shit, I had my amplitube plugin on the bass track turned off for some reason! I've turned that back on and I've lowered the high pass on the strings and it is sounding better.

I have thought about using something like Aura but it's way way out of my price range! I tried using Bodilzier and Voxengo's Curve EQ to similar effect but neither worked very well.

So would using a multi-band compressor to tame the highs on the guitar be a good idea? Any ideas about how I can set it to soften those high strings without affecting everything else?
 
aha! knew something was "missing."

someone else will have to help you with the multi-band question.
I don't use multi-band anything...ever. I suppose it has it's place if you know what you're doing--I don't.
 
I thought the playing was nice. But there was a lot of string squeak (as has been mentioned).

The guitar sounds OK I suppose, but if you're going for "warm, woody, and mellow" it's definitely not that. You mentioned you've tried multiple mic positions. And this track has the mic positioned above and over the sound hole. How about the common position of: level with the guitar, positioned at the 12th fret, and angled towards the sound hole? I don't know if that's going to help or not - I'm not super hopeful.

Maybe that's just what the guitar sounds like. The answer might be "get a guitar that sounds warm, woody, and mellow." Might not be the answer you want to hear. Not sure.
 
Yeah I tried a bunch of different mic positions but I was getting way too much brightness with all the common ones. You are probably right about it being the wrong guitar (for the record it's a Fender CD-140S - not exactly high end) but that's all I've got for now so I'm going to have to make do.

Any ideas about reducing string squeak? I mentioned that I might try using a multiband compressor to tackle that and some of the harshness in the highs but it sounds really unnatural. I also tried using sidechain compression to duck the guitar under the hi-hat and tame that high E string but again, it sounds weird.
 
For string squeak I'd practice the part without squeaking the strings so much and retrack. The methods you described for getting rid of it are going to have really bad side effects. And probably wouldn't solve much of the problem anyway. They're a cure worse than the disease.
 
You can get an 'OK' sound from a CD140 (I've got a CD140SCE), but it won't be real warm - EQ some high end out, add a little saturation.
String squeak - yeah, it's annoying on this one. To my ears, string squeak should be limited as much as possible. Lift your fingers more, try coated strings (Martin Lifespan, Elixers).
 
You guys might be onto something. I'm not massively fussed about the squeakiness but warmer strings will probably tame the natural brightness of that guitar somewhat and solve some of the other problems I'm hearing. And if I can get a less squeaky take then that's even better. Thanks for your suggestions!
 
I don't like Elixers myself, thought the new sound was dull. Tried D'Addario coated strings, didn't like them either. Cleartones are great, but too expensive, so I use Martin Lifespans - light gauge on my CD140. Medium gauge will give you a fuller sound - maybe warmer, but you'll probably need to tweek the truss rod.
 
Do you think compression could accentuate these problems we're hearing? I forgot that I had a LA2A plugin on the track and now that I think about it, I'm not really sure why it's there.
 
Yes I think it could be making the squeak worse. But I doubt that removing the compressor or backing off of it is going to make enough of a difference. I could be wrong - who knows.
 
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