Overkill - Colin Hay / MAW Cover

Steve F

New member
Hi All, first post to HR forums. This is the 4th or 5th song I have attempted to perform and record. I hesitated to post it, but hey, nothing venture, nothing gained, right? When I started out, this was going to be a Colin Hay acoustic (Scrubs) version of the song, but one thing lead to another… a little bass wouldn’t hurt and maybe some cajon for percussion?

This is a “garage” band version in the true sense of the word, as the vocals, cajon and acoustic guitar were recorded in my garage, using a Zoom H4n hand held recorder and Behringer C1 mic. The electric guitar parts were played thru a Zoom 3GX effects pedal and “mixed” in Audacity. Mixed might be too strong a word here, as most of my mixing consisted of panning, silencing a few squeaky noises here and there and adding a little reverb. I’ve just downloaded Reaper in hopes that making adjustments to EQ, compression, etc., might be a little easier in real time as opposed to the Audacity approach of making a blind stab at tweaking parameters, listening to the results, clicking Undo, and so forth.

Anyway, please give it a listen and let me know if any improvements could be gained from a proper mix job, or if I should just use my garage as a place for woodworking and parking my car.

Steve

https://soundcloud.com/6_guitar_player/overkill-men-at-work-cover
 
I like your ideas and the the musical treatment you've given this track. For the way you've recorded it, the results aren't too bad, but I can easily imagine you being able to come up with something even better. For example, the percussion isn't all that clear, and through my headphones the bass did not have a lot of presence. Harmonies were great.

The vocal delivery was interesting. You kind of held back on them, and the result is quite a gentle treatment which, for the most part, works really well. I'd work on this and emphasize that quality by not double-tracking during the verse. The choruses with their harmonies would then really stand out. But the vocal does suffer at a couple of points: "at least there's pretty lights" and "come back another day" are two points I noted. The inhibition is very audible here, and it sounds like you were trying to sing out without actually singing out. There can be no halfway hose with these phrases: either you give them the strength that Hay does, or you work out a way of delivery that works with your gentler style.
 
Hey Steve...I've always loved that song. I also use Reaper, love the ease of use and layouts, although I do eventually want to get into using ProTools. If you don't mind, and are willing to post the multitracks, I'd love to take a stab at mixing it, and have to say that I agree completely with gecko after taking a good listen through.
 
I like your ideas and the the musical treatment you've given this track. For the way you've recorded it, the results aren't too bad, but I can easily imagine you being able to come up with something even better. For example, the percussion isn't all that clear, and through my headphones the bass did not have a lot of presence. Harmonies were great.

The vocal delivery was interesting. You kind of held back on them, and the result is quite a gentle treatment which, for the most part, works really well. I'd work on this and emphasize that quality by not double-tracking during the verse. The choruses with their harmonies would then really stand out. But the vocal does suffer at a couple of points: "at least there's pretty lights" and "come back another day" are two points I noted. The inhibition is very audible here, and it sounds like you were trying to sing out without actually singing out. There can be no halfway hose with these phrases: either you give them the strength that Hay does, or you work out a way of delivery that works with your gentler style.

Thanks for your comments, Gecko. I think there are a couple of reasons why the vocals were kind of held back... first, when I recorded them, I kind of had the more subdued Colin Hay acoustic version in my head, and second, while I was recording the vocals, I think I had the mic gain too high relative to the instrument tracks that I was listening to. I probably should have made sure my backing tracks were loud enough in my headphones so that I could have put a little more oomph behind my vocals. Last, but not least, probably the inhibition factor played a part as well. I recognize good singing when I hear it... and when I sing, I don't hear it ;-)

I'll also see what I can do to bring up the percussion and bass without making the overall song too boomy.

Thanks, again.

Steve
 
Hey Steve...I've always loved that song. I also use Reaper, love the ease of use and layouts, although I do eventually want to get into using ProTools. If you don't mind, and are willing to post the multitracks, I'd love to take a stab at mixing it, and have to say that I agree completely with gecko after taking a good listen through.

Hi Bart... yeah, it's a great song. I had kind of forgotten about it from the 80's, until I saw Colin Hay play an acoustic version on Scrubs a few years back. When I decide to record a song, it has to be something I really like, because it will be playing over and over in my head for days or weeks on end. :)

I'm in the process of exporting the individual tracks from Audacity and if you would like to take a shot at mixing it, that would be great! I'm not sure about the exact steps I need to take to get them to you in a usable format, but basically I'm setting all the gains to zero, and centering the pan before I export. For reverb, I generally duplicate a track, add the reverb to the new track and blend the two tracks using their individual gain controls. This being the case, I don't think I'll need to give you the reverb tracks, as you can apply you own effects. When I finish exporting, I'll load the tracks to box.com and send you a link. Does that work for you?

Steve
 
Hi Bart, here are the tracks if you (or anyone else, for that matter) would like to have a go at it. I had several tracks that contained a few clips here and there, so I consolidated where I could without causing any problems down the road. I still ended up with 26 tracks. After reading about double tracking on this site, I tried it, I liked it, so I ran with it. Perhaps it's just 'overkill'. :)

After exporting everything from Audacity and re-importing into a new project, it didn't sound like I had dropped anything in the process. Let me know if I missed anything or bounced two tracks together accidently.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tv7wntzrc54y66d/AAAd1CSW79k-UOj2WqdFf1bTa?dl=0


Steve
 
Thx, Steve...the tracks look good to me. I'll be working on them, and I'll post something for you once I have some progress.

Edit: Here's a quick mix I did of it...prolly still needs some work, but this is what I have so far...View attachment overkill.mp3
 
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All I can hear of the cajon is the thumping of it - and a very occasional snare-wire sound. Good effort though. I saw/heard Colin Hay do this solo (no backup guitarist), a very similar laid-back-vocal version, but what you didn't do was the 'up-an-octave' verse. ;)
 
Bart... sounds pretty good for a quick mix, but you'll want to mute the 'click' track for your next take. This was the rhythm track from my G3X that I listened to for reference while recording the other tracks (I know it sounds much better than my cajon playing!). I see you emphasized some of the guitar tracks that had more effects applied ( i.e. Livid), while I had them buried underneath. That's an interesting take on it that I hadn't thought of.
 
mbj... I built the cajon a couple of years ago out of some mahogany that had been sitting in the garage for several years, waiting for the right project to come along. I built in a retractable snare and for this song I had it retracted, as I was just going for a kick drum sound. It was a fun project and looks great, but it's not quite as 'live' sounding as some of the store bought cajons I've seen.

I hear ya on the octave jump that CH does... awesome! ...just ain't going to happen with these vocal chords :D Thanks for your feedback!
 
ahhh ok, thx for the info, Steve...I was somehow under the impression the click track was supposed to stay in lol
 
Okay, here's a quick first pass. Just about 2 hours of mixing to get the groundwork laid. If I were doing this for a client I would see what you think of the direction before continuing on. So if you like where it's headed and want me to continue working, just let me know!

EDIT: I wanted to note that this song got me through some tremendously rough years as Scrubs became my escape. So working on your wonderful cover is a joy.

 
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Very cool! i hear a bit of low end build up in the quickly strummed guitar that seems to be clouding the mix a bit. I'm sure once you address that the melody and those nice harmonies will have more room to shine!

keep it up man!
 
No problem, Bart. I debated on whether to upload the click track but since that's what I was listening to as I recorded most of the tracks, I thought I would include it to help identify any timing issues on my part.
 
Brian... a major improvement over my original mix! Maybe you could share some of the techniques you used? Especially form a low end perspective, you have cleaned up the bass and cajon so that they have a lot more punch and are more distinct. I'm curious as to whether you used all the tracks or did you find that some of them were unnecessary? Like I said, I read about double tracking on this forum and double tracked darn near everything. I thought the guitar solo sounded a little bit thin, but that may be due to the fact that I had the two tracks panned hard L/R and you may have them a little closer to center. I might have just gotten used to the way I had them. I'll be out of town for a few days, but if you can hang onto the tracks, maybe I'll take another shot at the vocals when I get back. Great improvement!!
 
Hi Bart... yes, this one sounds a lot better. Maybe the vocals could come up just a tad and in the intro, the 4 notes that repeat (I think the tracks were called Livid Intro), could come down a little. Not your fault, but I think when I was exporting the tracks out of Audacity, the timing got off a little on the intro. Maybe a nudge one way or the other on the intro would line things back up. Thanks!
 
I'm glad you enjoyed the mix, and I am happy to wait for some new vocals and then make other adjustments to the current mix. I would be happy to discuss the various decisions that I made.

1. The first thing I did, that any engineer needs to do, is organize the tracks. You had labeled the files really well which helped. I went through and color coded everything according to my personal color scheme and set up a handful of buses that I almost always use (drum/percussion bus, acoustic guitar bus, electric guitar bus, vocal bus).

2. I listened to the song with the faders all at 0 a few times and start pulling things down and pushing things up to get a general balance.

3. I realized quickly that you had double tracked almost everything, so my first decisions were based on which instruments I thought needed to be spread wide and which ones I wanted to use mono, placed throughout the stereo field. I muted a bunch of tracks that I didn't think needed double tracking. I started panning loosely and continue the panning adjustments throughout the entire process as the mix starts to take shape.

4. First processing decisions were made on the percussion since it was the backbone of the song. The cajun needed more thump and punch, which I achieved with a combination of EQ sculpting and saturation. I HPF around 24hz to clean up the rumbly stuff, scooped out the mids quite a lot to remove boxiness, gave a tight boost around 80hz for thump, a tight boost around 2khz for punch, and LPF off everything above 7k. I gave a decent amount of "warm tube emulation" saturation via my favorite FabFilter Saturn, and EQed the saturation as well - boosted the lows, cut some mids, and added presence. Photos:
Screen Shot 2015-02-05 at 11.28.29 PM.pngScreen Shot 2015-02-05 at 11.28.42 PM.png

5. Worked to get the bass driving with the cajun. Huge scoop out of the mids, tight boost at 1khz for finger noise to cut through the mix, and a cut at 80hz which is the same frequency I boosted the cajun. That gives the cajun a spot to thump without the bass getting in the way, so the two can work together. Bass was really well recorded, so only light compression doing 1-2db of reduction was necessary for dynamic range control.

6. Vocals now, the next most important part of the song after percussion/bass. HPF up to 136hz to clean up all the low end junk that pop vocals definitely don't need, took out a little mud at 580hz, boosted around 2.4khz to give some presence and cut through the busy mix. The compression took some playing around. My first thought, which ended up being the best one, was parallel compression to help the vocals cut without squashing them to hell. So I squashed them with a 3.5:1 ratio doing between 4 and 8db of reduction, but only mixed that signal in about 30% with the original. Then I used a Waves C1 to tame the peaks by 1-3db for dynamic range control.

6. Guitars. So, so many guitars. This took the longest because there were just so many acoustic and electric guitars all competing, plus they were all double tracked. Acoustics were given basic EQ treatment: HPF up to 150hz, dips around 500-600hz to give the vocals some room, boosts around 3khz for presence. Gave the entire acoustic bus a mild overdrive/saturation for some grit, via IVGI plugin (free, I believe). All electric guitars were HPF between 150 and 240hz, no other treatment. Well recorded.

7. Back to background vocals now. Bus had EQ (HPF way up to 340hz and a dip in the harshness range to avoid buildup of sibilance, some analog emulation presence boosting and air via Waves VEQ3, and slamming analog emulation compression with Waves VComp.

8. Reverb/delay choosing. Now that the whole mix was falling into place I wanted to choose an appropriate reverb to glue everything together. My go-to is room reverb and I went with a medium size room, about 3 sec of delay time and 45ms of pre-delay to put everything a little bit away from the imaginary walls. Then every track that needed reverb got sends in varying amounts according to what their place in the song was. Most everything was given minimal send because the mix was already so busy. EQed the reverb to take some of the mids out so we don't get muddy reverb. Then chose a delay just for the solo acoustic guitar, and used Waves H-Delay.

9. Timing and pitch issues. Went through with Melodyne and tightened the timing of the entire introduction and also the various cajun fills throughout the song. Used Melodyne to fix the most egregious pitch errors in the vocals, but suspected you would be re-tracking the vocals so didn't waste hours on it.

10. Replacement. No matter how hard I tried, the crash cymbal sounded like s***. No EQing, no matter how drastic or subtle, and no reverb would give me the sound I wanted. So I finally gave up and replaced it with a MIDI crash cymbal that needed no treatment.

11. Slapped on my favorite mix bus compressor doing a max of 2db reduction with slow attack and long release times to tighten things up. Then ran everything through FabFilter Pro-L limiter just to bring the mix up to a reasonable listening volume for posting on a forum (the song is only hitting a max of .5 of reduction - it's just acting as a safety net, not a limiter).

Aaaaaand that's where we're at. It all took about 2 hours to get to that point. I think it's in decent shape for more precise work.
 
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Brian... thanks for the detailed write up. Although some (a lot :D) of it goes over my head, it's helpful to see your overall approach to mixing my tracks. I can't believe you accomplished all that in 2 hours! Is there any way you could enable the download link on SC so that I could pull a copy?
 
Brian... thanks for the detailed write up. Although some (a lot :D) of it goes over my head, it's helpful to see your overall approach to mixing my tracks. I can't believe you accomplished all that in 2 hours! Is there any way you could enable the download link on SC so that I could pull a copy?

Certainly I can make it downloadable, but would you prefer I do some more work on it first? Get it into real solid shape?
 
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