Original orchestral music

[chandlerhimself]

Here is a song I wrote recently that is more in the classical vein. I'm trying to stretch out and write a greater variety of pieces to keep things fresh and also avoid falling into a writing slump. I bought Garritan personal orchestra a few days ago and this is my first song using the software. Although it's a budget library I'm hoping I can squeeze a bit more out of it with practice. I really don't want to have to buy samples that cost more than a car. Anyway, any comments on the writing, mixing, arranging, programing, etc. Thanks

ActionRection~2.mp3

[talk midway]

i really enjoyed this - great work!

[brassplyer]

Sounds good. As usual the strings and percussion are more convincing than the brass. I have yet to hear midi brass that really sounds authentic.

[chandlerhimself]

Thanks. It's almost impossible to fool people who actually play the instrument. Besides sample quality you also have to think like a player of the instrument and if you can do that you just play the part yourself. Anyway, as long as it doesn't sound so fake that it ruins people's enjoyment of the music it's good enough AFAIC.

[brassplyer]

Thanks. It's almost impossible to fool people who actually play the instrument. Besides sample quality you also have to think like a player of the instrument and if you can do that you just play the part yourself. Anyway, as long as it doesn't sound so fake that it ruins people's enjoyment of the music it's good enough AFAIC.

The problem with simulating brass instruments, particularly trumpet, even with high quality samples is that there are so many variables and nuances in how the notes are attacked, released, transitions between notes, various inflections.

If you strike a piano key over and over the same way, pluck a guitar string, bow a violin note the same way it sounds fine. If you do it with a trumpet sample it sounds robotic. The mechanics of double and triple-tongued notes for example is very different than single-tonguing and the sound is different and can very readily be heard.

Trying to simulate legato or slurred notes is about impossible because of the mechanics of the instrument and the way the embouchure, tongue and breath create the sounds. Some notes are transitioned between by use of the valves, some by utilizing only the harmonics of the instrument, which you'll never simulate using individual tongued samples. You don't even have to use the tongue, you can do a breath attack.

You basically have to record a bunch of individual articulations of various lengths and transitions between notes at various tempos but to make a comprehensive library of such samples would be all but impossible and prohibitively cumbersome to actually try and use.

Where you can come closer is with simple passages that don't use much in the way of articulations, particularly an ensemble sound but that obviously seriously limits what you can do.

Here's some french horns that came out pretty decent. Low brass seems to be more conducive to simulating.

midihorns.mp3

[Armistice]

Interested in your thoughts on the Garritan thing... I like your tune a lot, but I think the banked/solo (not sure which it is) violin in the left ear at the start is so obviously a MIDI violin it's not funny - and there are places where (particularly the brass as brassplyer mentions) where it's quite clearly not a real orchestra, however the woodwinds sound quite nice and the lower massed strings aren't too bad at all. Mixwise I think it's a bit confused in the range that violin's playing in at times... but I'm only listening on small headphones, so take that with a grain of salt.

I'm toying with getting the Instant Orchestra just for adding string/orchestral touches to pop songs, and not for actual classical composing... wondering if it's that good a deal though upon listening to this... note endings in particular seem harsh.

I'm not criticising your tune, incidentally, this is all about the Personal Orchestra thing you're using.

Are you happy with the sounds you're getting from the tool? Do you think you get better in terms of sound quality the more you use it, or is this basically it?

Cheers

[DavidK]

Nice job, lots of good things going on. I suggest paying attention to articulations. For example, in real life strings taper a bit at the end of long notes. Synths don't, so you can draw it in with envelopes or do a semi-fade. There are other tricks like if an articulation is slightly slow in starting, move the whole track over by 20 ticks or so. It's this attention to detail that will bring it to the next level.

I'm toying with getting the Instant Orchestra just for adding string/orchestral touches to pop songs, and not for actual classical composing... wondering if it's that good a deal though upon listening to this... note endings in particular seem harsh.

I'm not criticising your tune, incidentally, this is all about the Personal Orchestra thing you're using.

Are you happy with the sounds you're getting from the tool? Do you think you get better in terms of sound quality the more you use it, or is this basically it?

GPO has some hits and some misses: Harpsichord and organ are very good. Some of the winds are good (English Horn is one of them). Horns can be good if used with the metallic overlay patch. Anything "noble" sounding will be dull. Strings are meh. A little eq will improve sounds like the Harp, which is dull. Harps are fairly bright, so that can be improved.

I like Dimension Pro. I have Kontakt, EWQL Orchestra Gold, Garritan and Dimension Pro, and I use DP the most. The strings have the best articulations, they don't sound rich like EWQL but they "work" better. DP also comes with Garritan Pocket Orchestra, which is a "lite" version of GPO.

[chandlerhimself]

I'm not criticising your tune, incidentally, this is all about the Personal Orchestra thing you're using.

Are you happy with the sounds you're getting from the tool? Do you think you get better in terms of sound quality the more you use it, or is this basically it?

Cheers

I'm happy with it, but I'm not satisfied with it if that makes sense. It's certainly not perfect and I can hear the flaws, but on the other hand the price to sound ratio is really good IMO. Before I bought it I was comparing my options and it seemed like the best option overall. EWQL gold looks good, but after hearing some demos I came to the conclusion that most of the good stuff I heard was a combination of mixing it with other libraries and production. On top of that the iLok bothered me. The straw that broke the camels back was the price. I had similar problems with other libraries. AFAIK there is no complete library where everything sounds good and from what I've heard the results seem to have more to do with programming/production/mixing skills than the library itself. The best VSL.EWQL demos sound great IMO, but the worst ones sound much worse than the best GPO demos. For me GPO isn't enough, but on the other hand the improvement offered by the alternatives aren't worth the money. I'll going to keep working with GPO and then when prices come down or someone comes out with a really great library I'll make a big upgrade.

As for your 2nd question. I think I can squeeze more out of it. I'm sure if I did a better job referencing while mixing and producing this one I would have gotten closer. Also I'd only had it a week when I make this, so I'm sure I can dig deeper and get more realistic sounds. I ended up remixing it and I think it sounds better now, although the problems with the fake sounding violin and horn haven't changed.