Original metal riff

P

PN98

New member
Hello again!

It's been a while since I posted the Boots and blood cover. You guys gave me great advice and now I have much better understanding (i think)of what to do and what not to.

https://soundcloud.com/instrumental-metal/original-riff-1

For this track I boosted the mids for the two guitar tracks I panned L&R. With 4 guitar tracks played(2left2right) I didn't find the sound to be any bigger. Am I doing something wrong? I also did an group channel on cubase where I put the kick and snare + the guitars and added compressor to that channel. I had no idea what I did there but got it sounding better:b
It still sounds like guitars are kinda behind the drums and not as wide as they propably should be.

Are there still some tricks to make it sound fuller and better?
 
The multiple guitars will only sound BIGGER if there are differences in tone & micro timing between them.
Stacking essentially the same guitar sound will only make it louder.
 
you say they are panned L and R, but they sound dead-centered to me. That means you probably copied and pasted the tracks then panned those copied files, right?

As Ray said, you need to do a true double track to get the wide separation and fullness. Record the main rhythm twice. Use a diff amp or mic on the second one, or both.
 
The tone on the riff sounds pretty cool to me. But I agree with the others... If you want to get it fuller sounding, you should double track it. Copying/pasting/nudging/delaying/EQing is not the same thing.
 
I did record the guitar tracks separately. No copy & pasting. Then I put the compressor on the group channel which consists of the guitars, bass drum and snare. When I adjust the compressor settings the way that I get the guitars go down when the kick hits the guitars are being more centered and blurred. This is the problem.
 
PN98 said:
I did record the guitar tracks separately. No copy & pasting. Then I put the compressor on the group channel which consists of the guitars, bass drum and snare. When I adjust the compressor settings the way that I get the guitars go down when the kick hits the guitars are being more centered and blurred. This is the problem.
Click to expand...

What's your reasoning for having a bus with only those instruments?
 
Number one reason is to get the guitars down very slightly when the kick hits. I think it gives it more power. For the snare it does the same thing. I don't always add the snare to this group channel.
I don't really know how compression works so I'm just experimenting with the settings to get a good sound.
 
PN98 - I think you're really over-complicating and over thinking it.

You say, you're actually re-tracking, not C&Ping, which is what you're supposed to do - your rhythm playing seems tight so it shouldn't turn to mush.

I don't know how many guitars, amps and mics you have (are you on a sim or a real amp? Sounds quite simmy). I have one amp, one mic and predominantly record with one guitar - I just move the mic about 1.5cm across the grill-cloth between takes to get that tonal difference.

You could probably do with using a touch less gain too and it might give it a bit more clarity and actually make it sound a bit heavier, particularly as you have some ringing notes in the riff.

Personally, I think you should get a guitar sound you like and just record it, move the mic slightly and record it again, stick the bass and drums with it and see if anything is clashing badly... if it is, straighten it out with the EQ. Careful that you don't go EQing one guitar to sound exactly like the other guitar, get two tones you're happy with.

I wouldn't add more compression to that style of guitar, the overdrive/gain already adds fuck loads of compression.

EDIT: Also, when you're changing things, take your time, only change one variable at a time so you can really see what it does. Otherwise you'll get completely lost.

Post up a few licks in The New Tone Thread in the Guitars and Basses section - you'll probably get the attention of Greg_L. Despite what some posters think of his attitude, he's one of the most helpful forum members when it comes to capturing good tone - he will take the piss out of your style of music, but he'll almost certainly help you too.
 
So, should the guitars that play the exact same thing and are panned LR sound slightly different to each other? Is that what your saying JDOD?
 
PN98 said:
So, should the guitars that play the exact same thing and are panned LR sound slightly different to each other? Is that what your saying JDOD?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think so. What I do is this:
Record one of the tracks and listen to it back to make sure I am happy with the performance, then I move the mic slightly - only a centimetre or two - and record the other guitar track (again, check to make sure you're happy with your sound and performance on the take). Alternatively, if you have two similar (but not the same) sounding guitars you could just swap guitar between takes instead.

I used to try and keep the guitars sounding identical, same guitar, same EQ, same mic placement but this lead to an odd effect sometimes - almost a bit phasey.

I know you're thinking of quad tracking aren't you? I don't do this much, but what you could try is sticking your 3rd and 4th guitar a bit wider than the first two - if your first two are 50/50 L/R, try 75/75 L/R - and then sit them back in the mix a little by adding a little reverb to them - be subtle though - you don't want to sound like a band with 4 guitarists - you just wanna sound heavy as fuck!

I've never used the same riff quad tracked though, I've just done it with a double tracking a rhythm section and double tracking a harmony section where I had the harmony parts panned a little wider than the main rhythm and a little further back.

This worked for me and it could be worth you giving it a go. Post up your results - would be interested to see how you get on.
 
When the loudest instrument hits the compressor it usually results in everything going through the compressor to drop in volume (it all varies by the relative levels of each instrument fed into it of course). You can try working with a side chain if you're trying to duck the guitars. It's a bugger to get subtle though. I compress my rhythms when mixing to get them to hold a relative level against the mix. I will pan my rhythms sometimes at various amounts to get a little fill in the mix. It's all personal taste.
Cool riff :D:D:D:D
 
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