My band The Shambollix live - English Civil War by the Clash

Bubba po

Tiny Stonehenge Moment
This is another one from a multitrack recorded through the desk at a gig last year. I've been practising my mixing with these tracks and this is the first one I've done for a few months. We're thinking of putting together a live CD of the best ones. My question is, is this cutting it for a live album? Is it listenable enough?

(LOL) :laughings:



REMIX:

 
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First listen: it needs more kick and vocal. It sounds like guitar and snare on top with everything else buried. Once the kick is up a bit it will probably need some eq adjustment for the right balance of snap and boom.
 
First listen: it needs more kick and vocal. It sounds like guitar and snare on top with everything else buried. Once the kick is up a bit it will probably need some eq adjustment for the right balance of snap and boom.

Thanks - having a play with that now. :)
 
I don't have too much specific advice, but I can tell you how I'd approach it in general.

I would start building the mix with kick and snare. The kick's the 1 and 3, the snare's the 2 and 4. You want to represent all those beats fairly equally. I would probably include the overheads at this point in the process since they affect the sound of the snare. The kick probably needs some sculpting, but I can hardly hear it in your mix. It may need an upper-mid boost for clarity and/or cut some mud.

Once those are balanced I'd bring in the vocal. Kick, snare and vocal should be a rock solid group. The vocal may need eq, editing, compression.

Now I'd bring in the bass. I like it when the bass note essentially carries on from a kick hit. Again, I may need to cut mud or find a bit of upper-mid to boost, being sure not to lose the LF impact of the kick or bass. Your mix is lacking in lows.

Next I'd bring in the rest of the kit, using the kick/snare/vocal/bass as my reference point.

Now I'd bring in guitars, filling in all that space, but never losing the kick/snare/vocal trio. It's a fine balance. On the one hand you don't want to lose the vocal, but on the other hand if the vocal is having to work to stay in the mix it makes it sound loud, and you want this to sound like it's loud. So I'd make the guitars sort of challenge the vocal in terms of level. To be honest You were really close to that already.

Then I'd bring in any other vocals using the lead as a reference point.

Now I'd listen for frequency buildups and figure out where I can cut to bring them in line. I often find a low-mid buildup with groups of backing vocals or layered guitars. I'd listen for anything sticking out or getting lost. Eq, level and dynamics may need more tweaking. I'd mute then unmute each track one at a time to see what it's bringing to the mix, good or bad, and walk around the room, listen through a doorway from another room, on headphones etc.
 
I don't have too much specific advice, but I can tell you how I'd approach it in general.

I would start building the mix with kick and snare. The kick's the 1 and 3, the snare's the 2 and 4. You want to represent all those beats fairly equally. I would probably include the overheads at this point in the process since they affect the sound of the snare. The kick probably needs some sculpting, but I can hardly hear it in your mix. It may need an upper-mid boost for clarity and/or cut some mud.

Once those are balanced I'd bring in the vocal. Kick, snare and vocal should be a rock solid group. The vocal may need eq, editing, compression.

Now I'd bring in the bass. I like it when the bass note essentially carries on from a kick hit. Again, I may need to cut mud or find a bit of upper-mid to boost, being sure not to lose the LF impact of the kick or bass. Your mix is lacking in lows.

Next I'd bring in the rest of the kit, using the kick/snare/vocal/bass as my reference point.

Now I'd bring in guitars, filling in all that space, but never losing the kick/snare/vocal trio. It's a fine balance. On the one hand you don't want to lose the vocal, but on the other hand if the vocal is having to work to stay in the mix it makes it sound loud, and you want this to sound like it's loud. So I'd make the guitars sort of challenge the vocal in terms of level. To be honest You were really close to that already.

Then I'd bring in any other vocals using the lead as a reference point.

Now I'd listen for frequency buildups and figure out where I can cut to bring them in line. I often find a low-mid buildup with groups of backing vocals or layered guitars. I'd listen for anything sticking out or getting lost. Eq, level and dynamics may need more tweaking. I'd mute then unmute each track one at a time to see what it's bringing to the mix, good or bad, and walk around the room, listen through a doorway from another room, on headphones etc.


Thanks, BSG that's good general advice, and that's usually the kind of process I use. I've put up a revised mix.

The problem with this track is that the sound recordist at the gig put a gate on the kick that wasn't set up very well and that's fucked up the recording a bit. I'm happy that this mix puts over the sound of the band in a live setting quite well, though. It sounds pretty authentic to me for 1977-vintage UK punk rock. Played in 2014 by fifty-year-old geezers. :D The track listing is as follows:

Kick
Snare
Tom 1
Tom 2
Bass guitar (d.i.)
GTR left
GTR right
Main vocal
Backing vocal L
Backing vocal R

Note, no drum overheads or hi-hat mic. All the treble frequencies on the kit are supplied by bleed from the other mics (including vocals), which I've had to attenuate in between the main signals on each track in order to get some tonal balance overall.


Dobro - thanks, mate - much appreciated
 
Yeah, live recordings can be tricky to mix. When I record live I split all the mics into my own mixer so things go in clean. You never know what you'll get going through the live board.
 
I don't like the slappy sound of the kick in either mix.
Mix one sounds more "vital".
Mix 1 could use a little more from the b vox early on.
 
I don't like the slappy sound of the kick in either mix.
Mix one sounds more "vital".
Mix 1 could use a little more from the b vox early on.

Hi, Ray - just realised the "slappy" sound is generated by the recording of the kick, not by my mixing. If only the recordist had tracked the performance without all his processing shite in the first place, I wouldn't be struggling now.

Still sounds pretty good to me, though. :D
 
Sounding good Bubba. The performance itself is great, and though I didn't know the Clash tune itself it's obviously based on a familiar melody. It 'sounds' like a live tune, rather than a studio one, which is fine.

I really like the lead tone for those licks towards then end - it's got a pleasing wiryness to it.

I'm guessing there's not much you can do about the clipping distortion in spots? I think I preferred mix one too, seems to have a slightly better presence to me.

Enjoyed the listen bub :)
 
It sound good, for a live recording. It's hard to get a live recording sounding much better. I think some of you other recordings have had more low end content. I can hear the bass and the kick but they are on the thin side IMO. I think the recording needs more on the low end frequencies and it would sound even better.
Great performance bubba po
 
It sound good, for a live recording. It's hard to get a live recording sounding much better. I think some of you other recordings have had more low end content. I can hear the bass and the kick but they are on the thin side IMO. I think the recording needs more on the low end frequencies and it would sound even better.
Great performance bubba po

Thanks very much, Jimi - yes, it's really difficult to sort out the low end on these tracks. There's a bit of a trade-off between losing the mud and keeping the warmth because there's so much low-end bleed between the mics. I've got a guy who's offered to master the CD for me. He has some high-end gear and a fair bit of experience, so hopefully he might be able to work a little magic.
 
Sounding good Bubba. The performance itself is great, and though I didn't know the Clash tune itself it's obviously based on a familiar melody. It 'sounds' like a live tune, rather than a studio one, which is fine.

I really like the lead tone for those licks towards then end - it's got a pleasing wiryness to it.

I'm guessing there's not much you can do about the clipping distortion in spots? I think I preferred mix one too, seems to have a slightly better presence to me.

Enjoyed the listen bub :)

Ta very much, Rob. As you say, I can't do anything about the clipping on the lead vocal, which is a pity. Thanks for the nice comments, though. :)
 
Ah well, you'll educate the recordists to do things dry and well within the limits of clipping etc for NEXT TIME.
I like the recording and song. I've heard many, many worse professional live LPs.
 
I really liked the song and performance. I'm don't have any advice on the mix though because I've never worked with live recordings like that.
 
Cool track! Killer vocals.

I much prefer the first mix myself. Just has more punch to it and the bass guitar came through much better. Everything but the vocal just sounds kind of mushy in the 2nd mix by comparison I guess? Too bad about the occasional clipping or whatever the glitchy sound is at 1:49 for example.

Yes, I think it's listenable enough in answer to your question. I don't know what I'd do differently mix wise not knowing what you have to deal with for raw tracks beyond what you've described. The drums definitely could use more power of some kind, but I'm not sure what exactly or how to do it, sorry! What kind of venue was it? It sounds fairly big?

I thought boulder's post was great btw. Pretty general ideas that could apply to lots of different mixing situations, and I already try to do most of those things, but it was helpful to me anyway to read it written succinctly and in one relatively short post like that.
 
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