Music to Murder - The Presence of Loa

kindafishy

Member
This is the first song that Sam (vocals, lyrics) and I (music) ever did together. We have 7 others (two of which I previously posted here) currently complete and 1 more that is almost complete that will be going onto our first release.

This tune is another somewhat sleezy, somewhat funky, somewhat rockin', somewhat soulful track.

Nothing is off limits. All comments are most welcome. It's all about serving the song.

https://app.box.com/s/1z81j3q9wjx97ikkiw1nh35jlq3jhj0t

Thanks so much to anyone who gives it a listen and double thanks for anyone who leaves a thought or two.
 
In my opinion this mix sounds great. There's a very nice balance between the kick drum and the bass and that makes for a nice rich low end that doesn't sound weak nor exaggerated. The guitar tone also fits nice. If I was gonna change anything it would be on the vocals. I would add a TINY bit of reverb so they "glue" better with the mix and don't sound so gritty and also find a way to make those whispers more intelligible. I think you put a bit of EQ on them to make them sound kinda telephone-y? If yes I don't think that's needed on the whispers part because they are already pretty up there in the highs because they're whispers.

To sum it up I think everything sounds good and the only thing I would change is perhaps some EQ and some reverb on the vocals to make them glue better in the mix and smoothen them up a bit. But then again that may just be personal taste.
 
The crash cymbals, panned far left and right are a little loud overall in the mix, and (it's just my way) I wouldn't have them so hard-panned - dual overheads would have the sound more 'in' rather than separated the way they are. During the first guitar lead the drums (not cymbals) seem to get lower in volume and at around 3:00 when everything stops but the guitar, the guitar is too low in volume by itself. At almost 5 minutes, I'd think about changing the last 2 minutes of the song - you go from a lead to a chorus, then back to a lead and some vocals over the lead to finally just kind of end with no "ta-da!"
 
In my opinion this mix sounds great. There's a very nice balance between the kick drum and the bass and that makes for a nice rich low end that doesn't sound weak nor exaggerated. The guitar tone also fits nice. If I was gonna change anything it would be on the vocals. I would add a TINY bit of reverb so they "glue" better with the mix and don't sound so gritty and also find a way to make those whispers more intelligible. I think you put a bit of EQ on them to make them sound kinda telephone-y? If yes I don't think that's needed on the whispers part because they are already pretty up there in the highs because they're whispers.

To sum it up I think everything sounds good and the only thing I would change is perhaps some EQ and some reverb on the vocals to make them glue better in the mix and smoothen them up a bit. But then again that may just be personal taste.

Thanks man.

The vocals have both a little bit of reverb and delay, but both contribute to filling out the vocal tone rather than being audible as an effect. It's one of those things where if they are muted, the tone completely changes. I was hearing what you were suggesting with there being opportunity to make the main vocals gel a little more. I experimented with the reverb and found that it wasn't really making a positive difference (and besides the rest of the album is quite dry). I was, however, able to get the vocals to drop in nicer with a very subtle and narrow cut to the body and a very subtle and wide boost to the upper mids. Very subtle, as in, the tone didn't change, but the feel changed.

There are two different effects used on the different backing vocal tracks. One is a sampled Lafayette Radio tape machine and the other is a sampled Wollensak tape machine. They each have vastly different characteristics, but they both do remove a lot of highs and lows. Good ear. I removed the tape machines from the whispers, but left them on the "watch me run" parts, and I like it. Thanks for the suggestion.

I updated the link in the first post to point to an updated mix.
 
The crash cymbals, panned far left and right are a little loud overall in the mix, and (it's just my way) I wouldn't have them so hard-panned - dual overheads would have the sound more 'in' rather than separated the way they are. During the first guitar lead the drums (not cymbals) seem to get lower in volume and at around 3:00 when everything stops but the guitar, the guitar is too low in volume by itself. At almost 5 minutes, I'd think about changing the last 2 minutes of the song - you go from a lead to a chorus, then back to a lead and some vocals over the lead to finally just kind of end with no "ta-da!"

Thanks Mike.

I pulled the OH's down by a bit more than a dB. The hard panning stays though. I like my OH's wiiiiiiiiiide. Sometimes I am concerned with making it sound like natural mic positions and how it might sound in a room, but other times, I just like what I like and I don't worry too much about what they are supposed to be doing in real life.

The guitar at around 3:00 is low like that because I was playing it that way. The drums get a little more relaxed as well. It's part of the arrangement.

No changing the last 2 minutes of the song. Its all about mellowing out at the end of a hard night of doing it up. Dig it.

Thanks a lot for the detailed observations. You always put your ideas out there and offer thought provoking suggestions. It is appreciated. Hey, who knows, if Sam and I ever have the occasion to re-record this song, maybe we'll talk about doing something different with the ending. For now, it's something to pass out to.

Updated mix in the first post.
 
The hard panned bvox don't quite work that far out for me.
Mix is pretty good other than that.
There's potential for "funky" but it doesn't really get jiggy.
Main vox are cool.
The solo is in the bathroom right?
 
The hard panned bvox don't quite work that far out for me.
Mix is pretty good other than that.

Thanks a tonne, rayc.

...and considering Mike's comments:

The crash cymbals, panned far left and right are a little loud overall in the mix, and (it's just my way) I wouldn't have them so hard-panned - dual overheads would have the sound more 'in' rather than separated the way they are.

I often get comments on my affinity for hard panning, not just on this mix but on pretty much every mix. It seems to me that proponents of LCR seem to also be okay with non-LCR, but the inverse is not true. If you don't like it, you really don't like it. I tend to enjoy it myself (I have always liked LCR mixes, not just mine), but ultimately I want the mix to serve the song. It is kind of counter to the goal of "presenting a mix in the most compelling way possible" if mix choices end up alienating a group of listeners. I am not at all a person who is stubborn to the point of detriment. I discussed this with Sam, and as much as it shocked him, I am going to do up a version of this mix without my typical self-imposed "LCR guidelines".

We'll see how it goes. Maybe I'll enjoy the end result just as much, but just in a different way, right?

There's potential for "funky" but it doesn't really get jiggy.

I'm going to increase the BPM. Perhaps that can help tease out a little more of a funky feel. I hear what you're saying. Right now, there are "funky" bits being played in more of a "groovy" style. I'll try to find a BPM that lets both come through. It's a bit slow right now. Sam and I are both in agreement about this. It's going to take me a couple days to get this done though because I am having some challenges with REAPER and time signature changes that I have in the middle section.

The solo is in the bathroom right?

In a virtual sense, kind of. The guitars are naturally "in a different space", so I am not fighting that, rather I am working with it so that they sound like they are part of the mix despite that. I'm pretty happy with how it is sitting in the mix right now, but I have a few more tricks up my sleeve if the perception is that there is room for improvement.
 
I think you could automate the guitar at 3:00 just a little bit and still preserve the feel. Cymbals are little more tamed, but I'd take another dB off them. If you like the L-R, then that's cool, I just prefer it more like I was sitting in the room listening to it being played (for the average song), at least for the drums.
 
Absolutely dug this tune. Nothing seemed off in the mix to me. The wide cymballs didnt bug me but i might have brought em in a tad..
Very strong tune
 
This sounds great to me!

I think the vocals are just a tad...and I mean a TAD hard to hear at points. My personal opinion on that is it bothers me a little on the first listen but once you know the song a little it's fine.

I might make an adjustment if it were mine but not by much. Slight eq of the vocal or perhaps slight mid eq reduction on some instruments to help.

But honestly sounds great guys. Nice work!
 
I think you could automate the guitar at 3:00 just a little bit and still preserve the feel. Cymbals are little more tamed, but I'd take another dB off them. If you like the L-R, then that's cool, I just prefer it more like I was sitting in the room listening to it being played (for the average song), at least for the drums.

I'll look at automating that up as much as I can while keeping the dynamics as I want them. I have been doing more work on the mix. Should get to post it within a few days. I hear ya on the L-R, but I am open minded enough to consider different approaches and now I am having fun with it. From my point of view, although I very much like LCR, I also very much like what you do in regards to sitting in the room listening, so it's not at all that I dislike non-LCR at all.

Here's the other thing I am considering: It is one thing for someone listening to say "I don't really like the song". That seems totally fine to me, as we all like what we like. It's a beautiful thing. However, for someone listening to say "I don't like the mix due to a technical guideline being followed and therefore I don't enjoy listening to a song that I otherwise think is cool" is not at all fine. Mixing to me is part of the art, the creativity and expression of the piece, of course, but it is a magnitude less important than the song itself, all day, every day and invariably.

I am here (partly*) because I want my mixes to present the song in the most compelling way possible to the widest variance of tastes possible. I'm not doing that if I am alienating some due to a particular approach. It's all about the song and never about the mix. *Partly, because I also love listening to everyone else's efforts and sharing my thoughts, of course.
 
Absolutely dug this tune. Nothing seemed off in the mix to me. The wide cymballs didnt bug me but i might have brought em in a tad..
Very strong tune

Thanks cakewalkgg. Very cool that you liked it :).

I have grown to really dislike some aspects of this mix after letting it fester for a couple days, so I am working on a revision. Hopefully I don't mess up anything good about the current mix! I am bringing the cymbals in a bit. I'm not going to completely neglect the far R-L, but I'm going to be more subtle about what goes out there.
 
This sounds great to me!

I think the vocals are just a tad...and I mean a TAD hard to hear at points. My personal opinion on that is it bothers me a little on the first listen but once you know the song a little it's fine.

I might make an adjustment if it were mine but not by much. Slight eq of the vocal or perhaps slight mid eq reduction on some instruments to help.

But honestly sounds great guys. Nice work!

Cheers, Retrohazard and welcome to the site! Thanks a lot.

With the mix revision I am working on right now I am bringing the vocals out front a little bit, so hopefully that will make them more clear. Hopefully you notice when I post a new version and drop back in for a quick listen. I'd like to hear your follow up thoughts.
 
Okay, well I did mention that I work very slowly, but I finally finished all the changes that were either prompted by the gracious feedback here, or that I decided I wanted to make on my own after letting the track fester for a couple days.

I changed a lot of the panning to give it more of a "sitting in the room listening to the band" kind of feel. Also sped it up by a few BPM over the original version. Did a lot of work on the drums to give them more impact and focus. Did a lot of work on the solo guitar to bring it more into the same space as the rest of the instruments. Many other small mix moves and tone adjustments.

What do you guys think? The link in the first post points to the newest mix, but here it is again for convenience -> https://app.box.com/s/1z81j3q9wjx97ikkiw1nh35jlq3jhj0t

Thanks again for the feedback so far! The people on this site are having a very positive impact on me and my mixing.
 
I agree about this sight being nice from the mixing critique aspect. Some excellent recordings going on here and if you think about it just listening to great recordings can only help yours!

This is excellent to me. Everything is clearly in it's own space...an issue I have with my recordings I think. I have one suggestion: The mix seems a little dark to me. I don't mind that at all but I think it effects how the vocals come through. My approach would be to either eq the low end out a little or bump up the highs just a bit. On this recording I generally like how you have the bass so I would bump some highs and see if it helped.

Right now it has a muddier sound to me. I think dark is actually a better term because muddy would suggest many overlapping freq or too much verb mucking things up and I don't think that's what you have here.

On a second listen it sounds better to me than I thought. Just the vocals buried in a few spots. I still think it is slightly dark but my main concern would be the vocals coming through just a little more...a LITTLE more.

Nice work bro!

Ricky
 
I like how the solo guitar's not loud but how it's clearly heard. Same with the outro vocals. Nice one.
 
I agree about this sight being nice from the mixing critique aspect. Some excellent recordings going on here and if you think about it just listening to great recordings can only help yours!

This is excellent to me. Everything is clearly in it's own space...an issue I have with my recordings I think. I have one suggestion: The mix seems a little dark to me. I don't mind that at all but I think it effects how the vocals come through. My approach would be to either eq the low end out a little or bump up the highs just a bit. On this recording I generally like how you have the bass so I would bump some highs and see if it helped.

Right now it has a muddier sound to me. I think dark is actually a better term because muddy would suggest many overlapping freq or too much verb mucking things up and I don't think that's what you have here.

On a second listen it sounds better to me than I thought. Just the vocals buried in a few spots. I still think it is slightly dark but my main concern would be the vocals coming through just a little more...a LITTLE more.

Nice work bro!

Ricky

Hey Ricky,

Thanks a lot, both for your initial feedback and your follow up. I agree that the mix is a tiny bit on the dark side (which I definitely went for on purpose with every instrument) and there is room in the highs for a bit more content. I'll play with vocals up there. I like where the upper mids are right now with the vocs, but I can introduce some "air" in the highs for sure. Just a little.

:)
 
I like how the solo guitar's not loud but how it's clearly heard. Same with the outro vocals. Nice one.

Thanks dobro. I'm happy to learn that it's coming across that way. I really never know when it gets to the end of a mix because I am so incredibly over-familiar with everything. Really appreciate the listen and the comments, man.
 
I like how you thickened up my voice most in this version. The original telephone style was cool, but they sound more "earthy" in this incarnation. I also like how more the spectrum is used in this version. There's more of a band feel than a mix feel to me.
 
I like how you thickened up my voice most in this version. The original telephone style was cool, but they sound more "earthy" in this incarnation. I also like how more the spectrum is used in this version. There's more of a band feel than a mix feel to me.

I agree that there is more of a band feel now. I am happier with the overall sound of this mix after experimenting with getting away from strict LCR guidelines. I'll keep going with this for sure. Many thanks to everyone who gently nudged me to try new things. I really appreciate this place and all the people who take the time to help here.
 
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