Music to Murder - Cold Soul

[kindafishy]

The bass isn't translating very well on midrange players. One reason is that it isn't all that present on the regular monitors, and when I switch over to the Avantone, it just about disappears. How about turning it up and also boosting something somewhere between 440 and 1100?

In the chorus, the vocal's disappearing a bit. Turn it up? In fact, you could turn the vocal up anyway. (But not during the segments where it's just the vocal and bass.)

Nice tune, ye olde fellowe. I like it a lot.

You know. I. Hate. Bass.

I love listening to it. I hate mixing it.

I have been at this game for a few years now, but bass is something I can just never get a handle on it seems. I am starting to think that I just don't know what good bass tone is. I was thinking that it sounded pretty okay, but after leaving it for a day and listening back while considering your comments here, I have realized that it is just this sort of undefined blob of tone sitting at the bottom of my mix.

I have to go back to the drawing board on it. I don't think further EQ at any range is really going to help it because it is kind of fundamentally lacking right now.

I will do better. Need to.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate you listening and taking the time to leave such helpful feedback.

 

[kindafishy]

I'd still recommend axing the Who vocal intro - it's not that strong, and if you actually want to release this on an album, you're going to pay for the rights to use it. As others have said, the vocal is a little low in the mix most of the time, and the wah guitar is still interfering with it - have you tried ducking the guitar with the lead vocal? As Dobro says, the bass is low in the mix too.

Okay! Okay! It's going . Next mix. Wouldn't want Roger's lawyers banging on our doors... or would we? Hmmmm.....

I did essentially the same thing as ducking by automating the wah guitar. I wanted a little more control than what a sidechained comp would give me. Is it interfering badly, or are they living together with the vocals commanding attention most of the time. I ask because, perhaps here in my mix space, and in my car, the vocals are very much the focus of the mix. I can hear that the wah tries to sneak in here and there, but it doesn't seem bad to me. I will readily concede that I may just be entirely too close and familiar with the song and my brain is adjusting what I am hearing.

Damn bass. I'm on it.

Thanks so much.

 

[kindafishy]

First listen...the lead vocal could be tighter, louder, and warmer. The bg vocs might be better not so hard panned. The left guitar is too loud...it could benefit putting it in various places throughout the tune. As it is...panned hard left like that...it's distracting.

It's a good rock tune. It could benefit by a stronger lead vocal and a tighter performance...which would increase the energy.

Excellent thoughts, StuGort.

Warmer is tricky with Sam's vocals. There is a lot of body to them and they very quickly sit on top of the mix if that is left prominent. Louder, I can potentially do, specifically in the choruses where the clean guitars come up pretty aggressively.

The left guitar in the verses? In the chorus? There is a doubled guitar on the right as well. The only places where there is one left guitar is during the intro, for part of the middle section and to start the end. Everywhere else is doubled. Perhaps the left is up a bit too hot if it is grabbing your attention like that?

If I don't pan it out to the left, then it is going to be panned centre, and I don't think there is room for it there, so I will take some time to contemplate it to see what I can do. I need to let this one fester a little for a bit.

Thanks for the listen and the comments!

 

[NotThatBright]

This is coming from a novice who fucks around with playing and recording but does not really have the ear to properly critique mixes. As a fan of music, though, my opinion is as valid as anyone else's, so here we go:

I like the music a lot and think the mix is pretty damn good. To digress for a minute, I don't know anything about the Allman Bros Band except for one song I remember hearing on the radio when I was 15 or so in the early 90s called "Nobody Left to Run With Anymore", which I liked a lot back then, though my general taste was more fast and heavy stuff. Something about this song reminded me of it, though I just youtubed it now and this sounds nothing like it. I have nothing to say to back up that association that was made in my head, but I'll mention it anyway.

The guitars, bass and drums all seem to do their own thing yet be right within the groove. Voice also sounds cool. I like it. Your band can play, and apparently write, too.

 

[kindafishy]

This is coming from a novice who fucks around with playing and recording but does not really have the ear to properly critique mixes. As a fan of music, though, my opinion is as valid as anyone else's, so here we go:

I like the music a lot and think the mix is pretty damn good. To digress for a minute, I don't know anything about the Allman Bros Band except for one song I remember hearing on the radio when I was 15 or so in the early 90s called "Nobody Left to Run With Anymore", which I liked a lot back then, though my general taste was more fast and heavy stuff. Something about this song reminded me of it, though I just youtubed it now and this sounds nothing like it. I have nothing to say to back up that association that was made in my head, but I'll mention it anyway.

The guitars, bass and drums all seem to do their own thing yet be right within the groove. Voice also sounds cool. I like it. Your band can play, and apparently write, too.

Hey NotThatBright. Of course your opinion is every bit as valid! As I like to say, one does not need to be able to paint the Mona Lisa to appreciate or have an opinion on the Mona Lisa.

I'm not familiar with that Allman Brothers tune. Just checked it out and I agree. Not sure where that association came from, lol. That's okay. It has to be a general sort of sense or vibe. We have had others mention the Allman Brothers with some of our other tunes. We get all sorts of references. That's okay with me. I'm not ashamed to wear my admiration of past artists I love on my sleeve. It's inevitable that stuff comes out. To me, that's a beautiful thing and I embrace it.

Thanks so much for the cool compliments. It is so very appreciated!

 

[kindafishy]

Right.

So, it has been a couple weeks, but I finally just completed mix 3 for this tune.

This mix, or a derivative of it, is destined for a full album that we are releasing independently. This, along with 8 or 9 other songs will be mastered together when all the mixes are complete. So, I am hoping that I am getting this sort of close to "ready for mastering". There is no limiting happening, but I am pushing it up towards 0. There is plenty of dynamic headroom here.


The link in the first post points to this newest version, but here it is for convenience:
https://app.box.com/s/fyp5ba8snk8h6ktu9z8s26en4litfg5f

Changes:

- The intro vocals were removed. No more danger of some curly haired dude showing up at my front door swinging a microphone and screaming "Who are you?".
- Bass. Pretty major changes here. I think I figured out a way to tease out a lot more presence. I think they cut through both large and small speakers now, at least in my testing they do.
- Did more work on detangling the wah guitar from the vocals. This basically amounted to a bit of EQing of the guitars and bumping the vocals up in general.
- Did a lot of work on buses and individual tracks to try to control peaks. I want to control the source material as much as possible so it can get to reasonable levels without much limiting, if any.

Some specific feedback I am hoping for:
- Does it sound "ready for mastering" in general? If not, and this was loaded up in your DAW, what might you adjust (I am happy to see both objective and subjective thoughts here).
- Is the bass translating well in your listening space. It doesn't have to be "OMG, GREATEST BASS EVAR!1!!", but it has to be "yeah, sounds good and it's working with the tune".
- Is it too dry? Now, I am purposefully going for a sound that is dry, yet it still feels alive, like you are standing in the middle of a jam space with the band. So, again I am very much open to both objective and subjective opinions here. In a very simple sense, is it working for you? In a slightly more complex sense, do you think this is going to lead to issues as a track on an album? Right now, I don't know that I want every song to be dry like this. I want to let each song sort of dictate what it wants to me. This one felt like it wanted to be dry. Might this become an issue? I can always go back later and make adjustments of course, so this is by no means dire. I suppose I can take a "wait and see, then react" kind of approach.

Anyway, thanks so much for the feedback so far. Anyone doing a repeat listen here will notice that I put a lot of suggestions into play.

Any follow ups or new opinions are MOST welcome!

 

[RAMI]

This is right up my alley. I don't know how I missed this, seeing as you originally posted it 4 weeks ago.

Anyway, either you made a bunch of changes, or I just don't hear most of the negative stuff mentioned, after reading through the thread. This sounds really good to me. I got nothing, maybe the drums can come up a bit? But that's about it. I like the song and I like the mix alot.

Now that I've heard your mix and song, I will always respect your opinion when you post in one of my threads. I always did find your insight well thought out, but now I also know that you know what you're doing.

Good stuff.

 

[kindafishy]

This is right up my alley. I don't know how I missed this, seeing as you originally posted it 4 weeks ago.

Anyway, either you made a bunch of changes, or I just don't hear most of the negative stuff mentioned, after reading through the thread. This sounds really good to me. I got nothing, maybe the drums can come up a bit? But that's about it. I like the song and I like the mix alot.

I'd say most people are being helpful when they comment on someone's song. But I also know that some people won't comment unless they can throw in something negative. If they can't find something negative to say, they probably just won't post. This is just a general statement. I always find that the best thing to do is listen to someone's mixes to determine how seriously you should take their comments.

Now that I've heard your mix and song, I will always respect your opinion when you post in one of my threads. I always did find your insight well thought out, but now I also know that you know what you're doing.

Good stuff.

I was thinking the same thing with the drums, but my ears are so burnt out on this song that I really couldn't be sure. I am really second guessing myself at this point. I will definitely adjust them up a little bit.

I'm so glad that you listened, and thank you so much for the kind words and encouragement. It means the world.

Yes, this version is pretty different from earlier posts. I really took the feedback given here to heart.

 

[heatmiser]

Nice job.

From what I remember of what your earlier mix sounded like, I think you did a great job resolving whatever issues I may have thought you had.

Bass is much more distinct now, at least through my tracking headphones which I'm forced to listen with now.

I think you did a great job getting that wah guitar out of the way of the singing as well. And no, I don't think it's too dry. Well done.

 

[kindafishy]

Nice job.

From what I remember of what your earlier mix sounded like, I think you did a great job resolving whatever issues I may have thought you had.

Bass is much more distinct now, at least through my tracking headphones which I'm forced to listen with now.

I think you did a great job getting that wah guitar out of the way of the singing as well. And no, I don't think it's too dry. Well done.

Thanks so much, heat. The feedback in this forum is just fantastic. Straight, to the point, with no sugar-coating. I think this is very rare. Most feedback forums, I find, are littered with false praise in the face of sometimes subtle and sometimes glaring mix issues. This place is refreshing. To boot, I am really enjoying the music I am listening to here.

I appreciate your feedback very much.


General PS - I made slight adjustment to the mix and pushed the drums up a bit (thanks RAMI). I also noticed that when I cranked the tune up really loud, that I was getting a bit of harshness in the upper mids, so I did a slight bit of taming there. Same link.

 

[dobro]

I'm on cans now too (monitor hum from a bad cable). But it sounds good to me, plus I can hear the bass on this one. These days, I'm all DI with bass when tracking, and then adding some distortion in the mix. Good DI and good distortion plug can do wonders for bass. Nice tune. The challenge on this one for me would have been how to deal with the wah guitar playing while the vocal's singing. I think you pretty much got away with it. It sort of bubbles and churns right under the singer without ever masking it. Rather than distract, it adds tension to the song. Nice.

 

[HugoRibeiro.Com]

Hey Kindafishy!
Great seeing you here too.

Well, a lot has been said already so I'll just add that its an awesome song. The Wah guitar is great. Love the whole feel of the song. Groovy!

cheers

 

[dobro]

I replaced the monitor cable and I'm listening through the KRK VXT8's again. I'm really enjoying this one. There's a guitar in there that's a bit bright maybe, but maybe that's just characteristic of the current trends in mixing muscle rock. Okay. I'll put up with that. This here's a very satisfying tune to lend one's earholes to.

 

[rayc]

Really nice job. the changes made have been very effective.
Personally I'd like a Db or 2 more at 3Kh in the bass guitar but that's just my taste.
Nice work.

 

[kindafishy]

I'm on cans now too (monitor hum from a bad cable). But it sounds good to me, plus I can hear the bass on this one. These days, I'm all DI with bass when tracking, and then adding some distortion in the mix. Good DI and good distortion plug can do wonders for bass. Nice tune. The challenge on this one for me would have been how to deal with the wah guitar playing while the vocal's singing. I think you pretty much got away with it. It sort of bubbles and churns right under the singer without ever masking it. Rather than distract, it adds tension to the song. Nice.

Excellent! Bass has been the most difficult thing for me to get a handle on with mixing by such a huge margin. As a result of this thread, I went back to the drawing board a couple times and I think (well, hope really) that I have made a tiny little breakthrough. We will see on the next mix I guess!

Thanks very much for the kudos on the wah and vocals. I had to take a couple stabs at it, and once again thanks in large part to feedback in this thread, I think it landed in a place where it seems to be working. This was one of those bits that I think was very sensitive to translation issues.

I replaced the monitor cable and I'm listening through the KRK VXT8's again. I'm really enjoying this one. There's a guitar in there that's a bit bright maybe, but maybe that's just characteristic of the current trends in mixing muscle rock. Okay. I'll put up with that. This here's a very satisfying tune to lend one's earholes to.

Sam and I are both elated for any enjoyment anyone gets out of this, so thanks so much.

This is the first song on a full length release we are working on (it's a bucket list thing, we have to put out a 'real album'). Today, I am starting to work on the second song. At the end, just before mastering, we will take another very careful and critical listen to these songs and make any final tweaks that they need before they go out. I'm putting your thought about the bright guitar into my list of things to listen for. I'm not necessarily going for current trends or otherwise. I just want it to sound good when cranked .

 

[kindafishy]

Hey Kindafishy!
Great seeing you here too.

Well, a lot has been said already so I'll just add that its an awesome song. The Wah guitar is great. Love the whole feel of the song. Groovy!

cheers

Hugo! Nice to see you here . This place is awesome! I am hearing some shockingly enjoyable music here. I love it.

Thanks a lot for the kind comments.

 

[kindafishy]

Really nice job. the changes made have been very effective.
Personally I'd like a Db or 2 more at 3Kh in the bass guitar but that's just my taste.
Nice work.

Thanks! As I just mentioned to dobro above, I am going to give this song a while to fester and then maybe do a final pass on it later on. I'll put this suggestion in my notes and I will definitely try it out when the time comes.