The Massacre of Bowling Green

mjbphotos

mjbphotos

Moderator
The Massacre of Bowling Green - remixed 2-25-17

Did a few things based on comments here:



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I'd love some ears on this one.
The lead vocal and acoustic guitar were both recorded with my trusty old AKG P220 and new MXL 2010 side-by-side (when I was testing the MXL out, if you didnt' see my post in the Mic section here). I could have just used one or the other for either track, but as long as I had them ...

 
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I would say be cautious - maybe 'deliberate is the better word, changing tempos. The transition up in speed in the intro can work. I read Page did that in a few places throughout 'Stairway- and hell, I guess all this time I never even really noticed :) Dropping back down -2:30, maybe is a tougher move. I'd guess is a transition where you'd want it to be clear and deliberate.
So are we hearing both mics? Wasn't sure what you meant.
 
Yeah, tempo changes are a killer. Solo on guitar, it's not really an issue, but add drums and more instruments ... Yes, both mics panned together.
 
I was slightly distracted by the L acoustic throughout; I was hoping for it to balance out more when it kicked in, but the sound was slightly lopsided to my ears. Probably a preference thing, but I imagined a more full/rounded sound after the intro. I thought the mics and recordings were very good, I'm interested in that MXL, sounds really good Mike.

Nice song title :)
 
andrushkiwt said:
I was slightly distracted by the L acoustic throughout; I was hoping for it to balance out more when it kicked in, but the sound was slightly lopsided to my ears. Probably a preference thing, but I imagined a more full/rounded sound after the intro. I thought the mics and recordings were very good, I'm interested in that MXL, sounds really good Mike.

Nice song title :)
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Thanks for listening - were you listening with headphones, by chance? I didn't really want to put the acoustic in the center (with the lead vocal) and then move it to the left when the electric guitar kicks in. It's panned at about 30%
 
Very CSNY sounding song. Just need a few more harmonies...

Seriously: The crispness of the acoustic kind of leaves the rest of the mix sounding dull-ish...it's not really dull, just sounds that way compared to the sharp, crisp acoustic. Welcome to the MXL revolution. Love mine. It's all I've ever used (mine's the 2001).
The leads are well done, and the tone is very 70s CSNY (back to the top). Sounds great
The rhythm guitar sounds like it's been high passed a bit too much. (Personal taste)
Everything else is top-notch. The drums are well placed and miked. The bass is smooth and tight.
 
The title is funny. Great song concept.

I thought the acoustic guitar fidelity was good. Something about the open D string bugs me a bit. Kind of buzzy. The mix kind of leans left for most of the intro.

I like the slightly breaking up guitar on the right. I think you could nudge it down and nudge the acoustic on the left up during that section. That section leans a little to the right.

Snare is a little muffled. Kick is a little soft. The bass is a little soft too.
 
BrokenH -Brand new strings on the Taylor for this song (1 day old, so barely broken in). Maybe I should throw a saturation plugin on it.

TripleM - I can EQ that open D I think, I use a heavy guitar pick so during the opening chords, it just may be hitting too hard. I played with the balance between acoustic and electric rhythm a bunch during the song, its amazing that just a little nudge one way or the other makes a huge difference in sound - which section did you think was too 'rightish'?

Thanks for the listens and comments.

BTW, mixing is done with my JBL LSR305s, so there is some hope for the budget-conscious.
 
mjbphotos said:
which section did you think was too 'rightish'?
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Going from memory because I can't listen at work. But I think it's the chorus. There is that slightly-breaking-up guitar on the right that I liked. There is an acoustic guitar on the left to balance the mix. Do I remember that correctly? I just thought the guitar on the right was a bit louder than the guitar on the left. It's really being picky.
 
My first thought is that the acoustic is really harsh. Everything else is much warmer, and with the panning it feels very lopsided (i too am on cans). Left is very crisp and bright. Right is more warm and rounded.

It's got a good build to it.
 
TripleM said:
Going from memory because I can't listen at work. But I think it's the chorus. There is that slightly-breaking-up guitar on the right that I liked. There is an acoustic guitar on the left to balance the mix. Do I remember that correctly? I just thought the guitar on the right was a bit louder than the guitar on the left. It's really being picky.
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Yes, that makes sense.

I have 3 more takes of the acoustic that I could use to balance out the right side during the first part of the song, but I don't hard pan anything.

Interesting that the 'left unbalanced' comments come from those using headphones. To me, this shows that headphones are not the best/only way to mix or listen - with speakers (of any type) the left ear hears some of what's coming out of the right speaker and vice-versa, so there's less imbalance.
 
TripleM said:
I like the slightly breaking up guitar on the right
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Yeah that guitar sounded really good. Neil Young tone to it.

Agree with prior comments on the acoustic (I'm on headphones, too).
Vocal seems lower during the chorus than the verses. I think it's being masked by the other instruments.
 
mjb - as has been pointed out already, the main acoustic guitar is way too shrill. You should retrack it with your mic in a different position - thus taking the opportunity to address some of the timing and semi-bum note issues (early at 0.09, a tad late at 0.13, badly played note at 0.17, there's a glitch at 0.19) in the solo part at the beginning. You can get away with less exact playing when there's a voice, but in the intro it's too noticeable.

And I'm afraid you're not treading some brave new path and saying "fuck you" to the established and now outmoded old school recording methodology by not having that guitar centred - you're just making it sound weird. It should go in the centre.

I'd say your lead vocal is too low and your harmonies are too high, as well. It's just a wash of voices, not defined enough for moi.

Good luck. YMMV.
 
Armistice said:
...by not having that guitar centred - you're just making it sound weird. It should go in the centre..
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I have to agree with Armistice here, regardless of how it was put. :) In my limited time here, compared to some of you guys, I think those time-tested principles hold up for a reason - they work.
 
Excellent beginning. Love what you did with the guitars, less harsh and covering both sides. Still sounds killer clean!
Kick still might come up a notch.
Sounds much more balanced overall. I liked everything about the first mix except the harshness of the acoustic (that I was trying to be very political in my speech about :)) But this is a lot better.
 
Thanks, I put the Ferric TDS on it - at full saturation, and EQed with significant roll off on the high end. I didn't think retracking would do much, the strings are still only a week old, and it's a Taylor, so the sound is bright! Mic positions was the usual 12" out at 12th fret. Intro is actually 2 different takes than the rest of the song, one panned left, one right, and in the center is the MXL track from the first take on omni, but dialed way back - it actually picked up a pretty significant reverb from my living room (next room over through open doorway).
I did push the kick up just a bit, thought it was enough (to my ears), and played with the lead (and BU) vocal levels, too.
 
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