The Massacre of Bowling Green
- Thread starter mjbphotos
- Start date
Bubba po
Tiny Stonehenge Moment
Drums inaudible: Check.
Acoustic guitars shrill and over loud: Check.
Vocals feeble and over loud: Check
Zero improvement after years and years of posting mixes and getting excellent advice on how to improve them? : Check.
Mjb, why do you even bother asking for advice if you never act upon it?
Acoustic guitars shrill and over loud: Check.
Vocals feeble and over loud: Check
Zero improvement after years and years of posting mixes and getting excellent advice on how to improve them? : Check.
Mjb, why do you even bother asking for advice if you never act upon it?
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
Dude. That was uncalled for.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
The clinic can be just as much good for the listener/commenter as it can be for the poster. Identyfing things to improve in a fresh track can help your own mixes. Unless you think you have it all figured out ...which you don't.
Someone posts, we comment, it's up to them what to do with it. Keep posting mike, I enjoy hearing your music and offering suggestions.
rayc
retroreprobate
I applaud any lampooning of Trumpalism but the satire in this falls a little short - the rhymes are a little too quick'n'easy.
That acoustic is bright and though now centred the ADTish treatment hasn't helped too much - not as harsh but still harsh and now sounds "treated".
The lead licks are the thing that caught my attention most- I don't know whether it was the tone or the near miss with notes/bends but it didn't work for my ears.
Vocals are struggling with range and it would be reasonable, as I do because of my clear limitations, to get someone to sing for you. Someone singing and maybe a collab lead player would give the song a better chance at being whole. Doing that in the service of the song is a good thing.
That acoustic is bright and though now centred the ADTish treatment hasn't helped too much - not as harsh but still harsh and now sounds "treated".
The lead licks are the thing that caught my attention most- I don't know whether it was the tone or the near miss with notes/bends but it didn't work for my ears.
Vocals are struggling with range and it would be reasonable, as I do because of my clear limitations, to get someone to sing for you. Someone singing and maybe a collab lead player would give the song a better chance at being whole. Doing that in the service of the song is a good thing.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I see you're trying to infuse the Gerg-forum mentality regarding this place.
I take advice all the time, and change my mixes based on the comments. Not sure how you are listening (or did you even listen to the remix?) but your comments would seem to differ from others, significantly.
Not sure what 'ADTish' means. Thanks for listening. I was hoping for mix assistance, since you (and Bubba) seem to not be able to do that, no sense in further comments.
rayc
retroreprobate
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=ADT&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&
ei=G1myWIfSH8b78QWfu7MY#q=ADT+plugin&*
I offered suggestions to correct perceived, (by me obviously), issues.
To my ears the issues aren't mix related so I, sincerely, suggested how you might address a couple of the problems I heard.
I can't sing in a way that is pleasing to the ear so I don't.
I can't play lead that sounds appropriate or create and capture a lead tone worthy of the name so I don't.
The lyrics sounded like a 1st draft & I thought they could be improved by some editing and rewriting.
I figured you could do better on all scores to make the song a better Trump Thumper.
Sorry if you can't see it that way.
I could pat you on the back, say it's great and leave it there, but that isn't what the MP3 Mixing Clinic is supposed to be for when dealing with anyone who isn't a newcomer to the task of song writing, recording & mixing. You've been at it for yonks, you've posted lots of stuff and I figured you be further along in the tasks or prepared to work with what you have from a self aware basis.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Better. The opening acoustic is still a little bright for me - ever run a low pass filter over the top end of an acoustic track? Give it a try - set one up and move it down the range and see - you might be surprised. You can automate it out, or back up a little, when the voice comes in. I don't think a tape emulation plug is what it requires.
You might think you're copping a hammering here, the question is whether there's truth in what's being said. I believe there is. Read Broken H's signature - that's the attitude everyone who posts here should take. Look for the truth and use it. Ignore the rest.
You're not a strong singer mjb - neither am I particularly but I've learnt what works for my voice. I'll give you the same advice I gave Robus (which wasn't, incidentally, "stop") - it's the long vowel sounds that are revealing your vocal limitations. It also sounds like you're singing entirely from your head, as well, and up very high.
Find the voice further down - the back of your throat and your chest. Consider a more spoken style, less melodic peregrinations. Get angry, spit the words at the mic. You don't sound angry, but the song should be angry. Talk perhaps via PM to some of the stronger singers here for tips if you don't want mine. Andrush is a very strong singer and comments regularly in the Clinic - I'm sure he'll help you.
Send an MP3, sans-vocals to Jimistone, along with the lyrics and see how he'd interpret your song - just for some outside perspective. You heard his voice? You should.
Your first up mixes always seem to have to go a fair way to being finished, which is perhaps where some of the comments are coming from. Frustration.
Anyway, I'll bugger off now and leave you to your track - feel free to ignore anything I've said, naturally. As we say hereabouts, YMMV.
You might think you're copping a hammering here, the question is whether there's truth in what's being said. I believe there is. Read Broken H's signature - that's the attitude everyone who posts here should take. Look for the truth and use it. Ignore the rest.
You're not a strong singer mjb - neither am I particularly but I've learnt what works for my voice. I'll give you the same advice I gave Robus (which wasn't, incidentally, "stop") - it's the long vowel sounds that are revealing your vocal limitations. It also sounds like you're singing entirely from your head, as well, and up very high.
Find the voice further down - the back of your throat and your chest. Consider a more spoken style, less melodic peregrinations. Get angry, spit the words at the mic. You don't sound angry, but the song should be angry. Talk perhaps via PM to some of the stronger singers here for tips if you don't want mine. Andrush is a very strong singer and comments regularly in the Clinic - I'm sure he'll help you.
Send an MP3, sans-vocals to Jimistone, along with the lyrics and see how he'd interpret your song - just for some outside perspective. You heard his voice? You should.
Your first up mixes always seem to have to go a fair way to being finished, which is perhaps where some of the comments are coming from. Frustration.
Anyway, I'll bugger off now and leave you to your track - feel free to ignore anything I've said, naturally. As we say hereabouts, YMMV.
jimistone
long standing member
I won't comment on the mix, performance, or engineering. I think it's been covered pretty well. I will just say that I think the premise for the song is a really good idea. Also, I agree with rayc that I could be developed a little more in terms of lyrics. That being said It's a great idea and I like political satire (even though I have sworn off of Internet politics). I will also say that as a rule of thumb most political satire songs do not have a stellar vocal perfirmance. In fact, most political satire songs make it a point to have a less than stellar vocal performance.
I think this is a diamond in the ruff.
I think this is a diamond in the ruff.
mjbphotos
Moderator
rayc - you could have just said 'artificial double tracking (Your link didn't work, it got split), but that's not what I did. There are two guitar tracks in the intro. Helpful would have been "just use one", or ....
Armi - see, you give suggestions on what to do, not just throw out insults like Bubba. The not-so-subtle difference of being helpful or being an ass.
I tried the saturation and EQ (there is a low pass on it as well) on the acoustic, it helped to my ears - its a very bright Taylor guitar with new strings, recorded the usual way with no adjustments to it initially. Not sure how much the saturation really did. When I hear 'harsh' - what does that mean to their ears? Too bright? Offending frequencies? It's all subjective if things are not defined. Like BrokenH's sig - tell me how to make the mix better, don't tell me to have someone else record the vocal or guitar part!
I'm well aware of my vocal shortcomings, I do what I can with what I've got. I've taken advice from good singers, and made improvements, but my old throat (and diminished capacity due to 35 years of smoking) is what it is. I could sing in a lower register (more chest, less head), but that's not how I hear my melodies.
Armi - see, you give suggestions on what to do, not just throw out insults like Bubba. The not-so-subtle difference of being helpful or being an ass.
I tried the saturation and EQ (there is a low pass on it as well) on the acoustic, it helped to my ears - its a very bright Taylor guitar with new strings, recorded the usual way with no adjustments to it initially. Not sure how much the saturation really did. When I hear 'harsh' - what does that mean to their ears? Too bright? Offending frequencies? It's all subjective if things are not defined. Like BrokenH's sig - tell me how to make the mix better, don't tell me to have someone else record the vocal or guitar part!
I'm well aware of my vocal shortcomings, I do what I can with what I've got. I've taken advice from good singers, and made improvements, but my old throat (and diminished capacity due to 35 years of smoking) is what it is. I could sing in a lower register (more chest, less head), but that's not how I hear my melodies.
Chili
Site Moderator
ido1957
9K Gold Member
I was reading Myles Goodwin's autobiography last month. I've seen April Wine maybe 20 times, as recent as a couple of years ago. He mentioned he's been a heavy smoker for 40 years. He still maintains his pitch and power despite all that. There's lots of pics of the Beatles smoking back in the 60's as well.
Vocals are the focus for the average listener. Yes the band as a whole must perform well, but most people will hum the vocals, not the bass guitar.
So a few questions:
- when you pick a day to record vocals, how many cigarettes do you smoke before, during, after the recording?
- how long before recording vocals do you stop smoking?
- do you own any sort of vocal training material? I'm talking very basic stuff, do-re-mi etc not Freddie Mercury level.
- do you have a predetermined vocal warm up regimen? Details?
- how do you monitor your vocals / backing track when recording?
- do you mute the bass guitar when recording vocals?
- how many vocal tracks do you record during one vocal session?
- do you track parts of the song separately? i.e do you break down the lead vocal into manageable sections, and record several tracks of each part?
- do you do more than one vocal session, i.e. a day or more later?
- do you comp your vocal tracks to extract the best parts of each track?
- have you ever been a lead singer or a harmony singer in a band that gigged regularly?
- do you write your vocal melody based on your vocal range, or write the chords first and sing it in that key?
- if the latter, have you ever transposed a song so the vocal melody is in your strongest vocal range/key?
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
All good stuff there, and this one is often overlooked. I can spend upwards of one hour just warming up. Even then, my best takes aren't until the 7th-10th tries. I hardly ever pull a line from take 1...or take 15, for that matter.