low budget Klezmer recording

O

oskar

New member
Pretty damn busy arrangement. Also the only recording/mixing I've done up to this was for the rock bands I've played with, so this is quite the struggle.

 
Was this tracked or recorded live? Sounds live to me, sounds pretty damn good actually.

The lead vocal could use some EQ treatment, maybe notch some low-mids/mids (100-500hz), to make it a little brighter. But I wouldn't just add high end without first experimenting with notching some lows and mids out. I'd hi-pass her too around 100hz if you haven't already.

Sounds pretty good overall, so even though you said it was/is a struggle, you're definitely on the right path. Sounds great.
 
This does sound pretty good. I was also wondering if it was a live recording? It sounds like there's a lot of room sound on the rhythm instruments, which would suggest that.
 
Excellent clarity on the instruments. Real nice fidelity. Had a somewhat loose/live feel. But it was kind of cool.

The vocal sounded like it was in a different place than the instruments. It had kind of a strange roominess to it. It wasn't quite as clear as the instruments.
 
What kind of pan did you use on the instruments? Sounds a little crowded around the center to me (but its almost mono sound kind of helps the old recording vibe too).

It does have a live feel but I don't hear the instruments laying back for the singer like I'd expect so maybe a little automation here and there to keep the vocal just a little more in front.

But with all those mostly subjective nits it's really very good.
 
All instruments are recorded live. M/S room mic and separate mics for each instrument with quite a bit of bleed. I just panned the solo mics to fit the room mic. Nothing drastic. Singer was recorded separately which is slightly problematic because the melody section just does not stop! There already is a bit of automation. The close mics on the violin and sopran sax are dropped almost completely when the singer comes in, but it might still be too much. I'll see if I can get them a bit further back during the vocal parts. I worked myself into a bit of a corner because I started with the room mics and then EQ'ed everything to the room mics, so once I drop those down the mix falls apart.

Mixing Vocals is my biggest weakness. I've never done a mix where I was really happy with how the vocals sat in the mix, and there's a lot of room for improvement here. I'll try your suggestions and see if I can put her in the same space as the instruments by adjusting the reverb.
 
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oskar said:
All instruments are recorded live. M/S room mic and separate mics for each instrument with quite a bit of bleed. I just panned the solo mics to fit the room mic. Nothing drastic. Singer was recorded separately which is slightly problematic because the melody section just does not stop! There already is a bit of automation. The close mics on the violin and sopran sax are dropped almost completely when the singer comes in, but it might still be too much. I'll see if I can get them a bit further back during the vocal parts. I worked myself into a bit of a corner because I started with the room mics and then EQ'ed everything to the room mics, so once I drop those down the mix falls apart.

Mixing Vocals is my biggest weakness. I've never done a mix where I was really happy with how the vocals sat in the mix, and there's a lot of room for improvement here. I'll try your suggestions and see if I can put her in the same space as the instruments by adjusting the reverb.
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That all sounds good, but you might still be able to stretch it a bit wider by taking the Sides up a dB or 2 and the Middle down the same, and then pan the individual mics a nudge further to the edges.

I mentioned this in another thread but routing all the instruments (M-S plus individual tracks) to a single bus can give you a little easier way to control it all against the vocal track. Don't know if you tried that, but it can allow some fine tuning of the overall EQ vs the vocal. It's also a place I'd put a bit of light compression, side-chained to the vocal track, automation, or both, to let the vocal sit in front. You could put your reverb there too if you aren't using it on individual tracks to adjust depth specifically on those. Maybe giving all the instruments just a little more reverb than the vocal can help too.

But I wouldn't obsess too much on this one - you should do another!
 
keith.rogers said:
It does have a live feel but I don't hear the instruments laying back for the singer like I'd expect so maybe a little automation here and there to keep the vocal just a little more in front.
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This was my first thought too. Intro is very good, then the vocal comes in and it is competing with everything else in the mix.

AH...found the issue in precise terms...alright, what needs to happen is that the music needs to part for the vocals IN THE SAME WAY the music parts for the first solo immediately after the vocals. Listen to how the music parts like the red sea for the immediate solo after the vocal section. It's as if a space has been carved out for it to sit in. The vocals need that. Something needs to give way, either through automation, or you need to drop a C panned instrument and let the vocals have their space instead of fighting for it as they are now.

Hope that helped. Great tune and recording.
 
Holy crap, that's some good advice. I just put some mid/side plugin on the mix bus and turned the sides up and put some +12k on, and that makes a huge difference. Ideally I'd go back to the mix, but aint nobody got time for that. A couple of people have already mentioned that it sounds very mono, but I didn't really pick up on that until you spelled it out. :D
Yeah, Andrush, that makes sense. I went back and basically muted the melody mics and only bring them back for the call/response parts. That works. But this is more of an arrangement problem, which means it's not really a me-problem.

On a side note since my PC was broke yesterday I've been mixing for 12 hours straight on other songs from this session and I just spent a couple of minutes trying to figure out why I can't get it to sound wider until I remembered I put the monitors in mono. Time to call it a day I think. I'll post the final result in case anyone cares, but it's not going to be that much better. I'll post some shitty rock songs on here soon. You guys are fantastic!
 
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On the vocal compression... there already are 3 compressors on that vocal, not counting the 2 de-essers and one on the mix bus... admittedly they're not doing much. I tried a full-on crush bus on one of the songs but with meh results. This was a really uneven vocal recording, but I can always smash it more!
 
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oskar said:
...That works. But this is more of an arrangement problem, which means it's not really a me-problem....
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FWIW, the first time I asked a few folks over to record in my little room and when they asked what I wanted them to do I said something like, "Just play stuff and I'll try to put it together," one astute fella said, in jest sort of, I needed to think more like a producer if I hoped to have them play anything worth the time. So, the arrangement may be something they brought, but when you are recording, unless there's a producer in the room, or you're passing it all off to someone else to mix, you have to think a little bit about how you kind of want it to turn out, and maybe even move folks around the room and remind them when the vocal parts are - a scratch track can be useful for that.
oskar said:
On the vocal compression... there already are 3 compressors on that vocal, not counting the 2 de-essers and one on the mix bus... admittedly they're not doing much. I tried a full-on crush bus on one of the songs but with meh results. This was a really uneven vocal recording, but I can always smash it more!
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Well, maybe it's overcompressed! I'd be tempted to loosen it up a tiny bit and try use both side compression on the instruments and mix-bus compression (or maybe just limiting) to keep the overall thing under control.

But, it sounds like you've learned a bunch. I'd love to hear you do another tune with this group.
 
Yeah this is really great overall. The vocal is definitely the weakest link, IMO, in both sound and performance. There are a lot of pitchy moments in there; I think she most likely has some better takes in her. But if it's all you have to work with at this point, then you do what you can.

But overall, great job capturing the band! Cool tune. :)
 
This is as good as it will get. More fitting reverb on vocals, some automation, brought up the sides on the mix bus. Some things I'd do differently after mixing the other 3, but this will have to do.
Los Bibilios 3 by Guy Incognito | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Here's another one from the same session where the vocals were a bit easier to treat:
Shir Sameach 2 by Guy Incognito | Free Listening on SoundCloud

But that's it for this project. Knowing myself if I keep working on it, I won't make it any better.

On a side note: double bass is an instrument straight from hell.
 
famous beagle said:
Yeah this is really great overall. The vocal is definitely the weakest link, IMO, in both sound and performance. There are a lot of pitchy moments in there; I think she most likely has some better takes in her. But if it's all you have to work with at this point, then you do what you can.

But overall, great job capturing the band! Cool tune. :)
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Yeah, if this isn't obvious from listening to it, she's mostly doing classical musical theater. She came in for about 2h and did all the songs. Most were single takes. I'm not sure if she ever rehearsed with or even met the band. Considering that, she did a great job. This isn't going to be on a cd, this is for a youtube demo. If they do a cd production in the future, they'll do it in a studio. This was a 2-day session in a rehearsal room.
 
oskar said:
Yeah, if this isn't obvious from listening to it, she's mostly doing classical musical theater. She came in for about 2h and did all the songs. Most were single takes. I'm not sure if she ever rehearsed with or even met the band. Considering that, she did a great job. This isn't going to be on a cd, this is for a youtube demo. If they do a cd production in the future, they'll do it in a studio. This was a 2-day session in a rehearsal room.
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Oh, ok. In that case, yes she did do a great job! Much better than I would have! :)
 
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