Looking to get this drum mix better

N

Noisemakers

New member
Hey all,

Would really appreciate some feedback on this drum mix. I've uploaded to youtube for listening convenience. There are two separate recordings in the youtube link below.

I'm very inexperienced when it comes to mixing. I watched many tutorials and tried to apply what I learned to this mix, but feel like it could still be better.

Just for some background on my setup:
- PG52 on the kick
- SM57 on the snare
- PG56's on rack tom and floor tom
- PG81's for the overheads
- Sterling ST31 on the high-hat
- Presonus firestudio project interface
- Studio One

Pretty much have on some Pro EQ, Channel Strip, and a Gate on each input, and then have all the inputs in a bus where I added reverb and a channel strip to the overall mix.

These are just two small sections of a project I'm doing for a friend. Overall, the majority of the project is "jazzy" with some variations, though the first recording has a rock feel (wanted to show this as I feel like it would be the best to get some feedback on for my mix). The 2nd recording has more of a jazz feel. Overall, I'm looking for a mix that can compliment a jazz type feel, but also bring out some of the rock playing, if that makes sense.

Looking for any type of feedback! Feel free to tear it to shreds, I'm just looking to improve this the best I can and learn more about mixing!

Of course, listen with good headphone/speakers if possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyBPEcJ1yYE
 
Noisemakers said:
Hey all,

Would really appreciate some feedback on this drum mix. I've uploaded to youtube for listening convenience. There are two separate recordings in the youtube link below.

I'm very inexperienced when it comes to mixing. I watched many tutorials and tried to apply what I learned to this mix, but feel like it could still be better.

Just for some background on my setup:
- PG52 on the kick
- SM57 on the snare
- PG56's on rack tom and floor tom
- PG81's for the overheads
- Sterling ST31 on the high-hat
- Presonus firestudio project interface
- Studio One

Pretty much have on some Pro EQ, Channel Strip, and a Gate on each input, and then have all the inputs in a bus where I added reverb and a channel strip to the overall mix.

These are just two small sections of a project I'm doing for a friend. Overall, the majority of the project is "jazzy" with some variations, though the first recording has a rock feel (wanted to show this as I feel like it would be the best to get some feedback on for my mix). The 2nd recording has more of a jazz feel. Overall, I'm looking for a mix that can compliment a jazz type feel, but also bring out some of the rock playing, if that makes sense.

Looking for any type of feedback! Feel free to tear it to shreds, I'm just looking to improve this the best I can and learn more about mixing!

Of course, listen with good headphone/speakers if possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyBPEcJ1yYE
Click to expand...

I'm by no means and expert on mixing either. But the drum mix sounds quite dry to me. Perhaps look at giving the snare more reverb and compression.

The kick sounds a little weak to me as well, perhaps more compression and boost the eq somewhere between 60 and 100 Hz, while scooping out the middle section (somewhere between 350 and 500 Hz).

I would definitely recommend giving the whole kit some parallel compression.

High pass filter on the Overheads, anywhere up to around 500 Hz, maybe more. Boost the high end of the Overheads using a shelf eq (I think that's what it's called).

The recording sounds quite nice though. I definitely think you can get this kit to sound really good.
 
BillMurray said:
I'm by no means and expert on mixing either. But the drum mix sounds quite dry to me. Perhaps look at giving the snare more reverb and compression.

The kick sounds a little weak to me as well, perhaps more compression and boost the eq somewhere between 60 and 100 Hz, while scooping out the middle section (somewhere between 350 and 500 Hz).

I would definitely recommend giving the whole kit some parallel compression.

High pass filter on the Overheads, anywhere up to around 500 Hz, maybe more. Boost the high end of the Overheads using a shelf eq (I think that's what it's called).

The recording sounds quite nice though. I definitely think you can get this kit to sound really good.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear the recording sounds decent and I can get this to something sounding pretty good. I'm going to try out everything you recommended tonight and report back. I agree that is sounds dry and the overall mix could be a bit tighter I think. Really appreciate the input!
 
You might need to use compression on your kick and snare, I couldn't say, but it sounds like you have a mixing (volume) issue. I could hear kick and snare, but not OH's. I would try to get the volumes right, then if you need to treat each track as you are getting your mix.

For us newbies, the first thing we do is reach of a magic pill. Well, try to refrain on first mix. Get your levels set, then use as required when you are struggling with the levels (like you can't hear the kick in the mix, but it is red lining). Use the EQ to bring out sounds and cut for those sounds you don't want. Just start with the basics, then work your way to fancy ;)
 
DM60 said:
You might need to use compression on your kick and snare, I couldn't say, but it sounds like you have a mixing (volume) issue. I could hear kick and snare, but not OH's. I would try to get the volumes right, then if you need to treat each track as you are getting your mix.

For us newbies, the first thing we do is reach of a magic pill. Well, try to refrain on first mix. Get your levels set, then use as required when you are struggling with the levels (like you can't hear the kick in the mix, but it is red lining). Use the EQ to bring out sounds and cut for those sounds you don't want. Just start with the basics, then work your way to fancy ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. Can you expand a bit on not hearing anything from the OH's. Just going through the mix, to me it seemed like the OH's were capturing most of the sound from the kit.
 
The mix seems to be all kick/snare/toms. The cymbals are way back in the mix. I think you may need to start your mix with the overheads and fill in with the close mics.

Can you post a sample of just the overheads with no processing on them?

The snare seems extremely dampened, almost like you've got a torn head. Maybe that's okay but without the rest of the band it's hard to tell. The toms and kick may need some eq, and maybe compression, to tame their dominant resonances.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The mix seems to be all kick/snare/toms. The cymbals are way back in the mix. I think you may need to start your mix with the overheads and fill in with the close mics.

Can you post a sample of just the overheads with no processing on them?

The snare seems extremely dampened, almost like you've got a torn head. Maybe that's okay but without the rest of the band it's hard to tell. The toms and kick may need some eq, and maybe compression, to tame their dominant resonances.
Click to expand...

This would be a very good starting point.
 
I thought the pop on the snare was pretty good. Seemed like it was gated and the gate was shutting pretty fast. But other than that, I liked the snare.

Kick was a bit woofy. Needs some cuts in the 300hz-600hz octave.

Toms sounded OK.

Overheads and hats sounded pretty clear to me. The overheads were a bit narrow and all the cymbals were pretty far back in the mix.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The mix seems to be all kick/snare/toms. The cymbals are way back in the mix. I think you may need to start your mix with the overheads and fill in with the close mics.

Can you post a sample of just the overheads with no processing on them?

The snare seems extremely dampened, almost like you've got a torn head. Maybe that's okay but without the rest of the band it's hard to tell. The toms and kick may need some eq, and maybe compression, to tame their dominant resonances.
Click to expand...

Just overheads raw: https://soundcloud.com/jefe-17/overheads-raw

Full kit raw: https://soundcloud.com/jefe-17/kit-raw

Regarding the snare drum, I'm really hoping my SM57 on the snare isn't shot or fake. I stupidly bought it used. Like I said, I'm inexperienced when it comes to recording/mixing so I figured the sound I was getting from the SM57 was typical. But listening back and comparing it to other SM57 snare recording it sounds dampened and not crisp. I hope I'm wrong?
 
That's an insane amount of snare in the overheads compared to the cymbals. Toms seem pretty hot as well. It sounds to me like you're playing the kit unevenly, too hard on the snare and toms and too soft on the cymbals.

I generally find that the overheads get the cymbals better than they get the snare and toms so I use the snare and tom close mics to fill in. The way your overheads sound it doesn't help to add any of the close mics because snare and toms are already too loud in the overheads.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
That's an insane amount of snare in the overheads compared to the cymbals. Toms seem pretty hot as well. It sounds to me like you're playing the kit unevenly, too hard on the snare and toms and too soft on the cymbals.

I generally find that the overheads get the cymbals better than they get the snare and toms so I use the snare and tom close mics to fill in. The way your overheads sound it doesn't help to add any of the close mics because snare and toms are already too loud in the overheads.
Click to expand...

I tried sound treating my room a bit, but the snare is very loud in the room, even hitting it softly. I think that's part of it with the snare being too loud. It's definitely not an ideal room for drums, but like I said it's what I have to work with. What would you advise doing to the mix?
 
Noisemakers said:
I tried sound treating my room a bit, but the snare is very loud in the room, even hitting it softly. I think that's part of it with the snare being too loud. It's definitely not an ideal room for drums, but like I said it's what I have to work with. What would you advise doing to the mix?
Click to expand...

I have no advice for the mix. I can only suggest playing differently and maybe different drums/heads/tuning. But mostly playing more evenly. The overheads should be fairly close to an okay drum mix once you add the kick, if a little light on the snare and toms.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I have no advice for the mix. I can only suggest playing differently and maybe different drums/heads/tuning. But mostly playing more evenly. The overheads should be fairly close to an okay drum mix once you add the kick, if a little light on the snare and toms.
Click to expand...

Ok, well thanks for the input. I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future!
 
Here's an updated mix. Took a lot of the advice here and I'm hoping it's improved. I raised the volume of the overheads to help fill out the mix a bit. I added some more reverb to help make the kit come alive a bit more. I took out some of the middle on the overall track bus EQ, which I think makes the snare come to life a bit more as opposed to sounding flat. And I added some more compression.

Thoughts?

https://soundcloud.com/jefe-17/624-drum-mix
 
Noisemakers said:
Just overheads raw: https://soundcloud.com/jefe-17/overheads-raw

Full kit raw: https://soundcloud.com/jefe-17/kit-raw

Regarding the snare drum, I'm really hoping my SM57 on the snare isn't shot or fake. I stupidly bought it used. Like I said, I'm inexperienced when it comes to recording/mixing so I figured the sound I was getting from the SM57 was typical. But listening back and comparing it to other SM57 snare recording it sounds dampened and not crisp. I hope I'm wrong?
Click to expand...
The raw kit sounds fine to me. Snare nice and crisp, perhaps a tad too much ring in the toms but far better to me than eq'd sound .
 
Noisemakers said:
Here's an updated mix. Took a lot of the advice here and I'm hoping it's improved. I raised the volume of the overheads to help fill out the mix a bit. I added some more reverb to help make the kit come alive a bit more. I took out some of the middle on the overall track bus EQ, which I think makes the snare come to life a bit more as opposed to sounding flat. And I added some more compression.

Thoughts?

https://soundcloud.com/jefe-17/624-drum-mix
Click to expand...
Since I know nothing of your initial set up / mic placement other than what you've stated I would like to make some suggestions on a different approach. To start make sure the kick mic and any mics that are pointed in an up direction (ie mic-ing the snare or hats from the bottom) are set out of phase on your DAW. You should notice an improvement in the lower response of the drum. Depending how far your overheads are from your drums, you may want to reverse the phase on these also. I've found that an X Y placement for overheads gives me the best results. Generally I do not roll the overheads off much above 100 or so ..of course it depends upon the type a sound you are striving for. I would also suggest an experiment for you. Once you get past fixing any problems that the drums have ( rattles, over ringing etc) record them and route them into a sub group and apply your eq and compression to the kit as a whole on that sub channel. With the drum kits I've mixed I'm finding that once I get an even balance on the kit (snare generally 3 db hotter than everything else)and if I do only minimal (if any) eq'ing to the individual drums and treat the kit as one instrument I'm getting some very good results. ...and if I'm not completely satisfied with the sound I then go to the individual tracks do whatever to get what I'm looking for. If you haven't already, experiment more with the placement of the snare and kick mics to see if you can get a fuller sound out them ie: aiming the kick mic more into the shell or more at the beater or aiming the snare mic more at the rim or even side or bottom of the snare ( don't forget the phase) or even moving the mic farther away or closer to improve the sound. If you are using mics on every drum (spot mics) you maybe picking up enough cymbal already..take your over heads and move them out in to the room more for a more natural ambience as opposed to just adding reverb. Try mic-ing your kit with the kick and the 2 overheads and see where that gets you. Most of the live and some studio work I've done mic-ing up jazz kits were just 3 mics and we got great results. Last thought for now, unless you are only going to record your drums solo your final drum eq may be quite different once mixed with the other instruments/vocals you are recording. Part of getting a great mix is to leave or make room for other instruments to sit in such as raising the hi-pass frequency on the kick to allow the bass to occupy that space and avoid overloading of like frequencies. I hope I'm not sounding condescending here..I'm just trying to explain something to someone that I have no idea on how much they do or do not know. Good luck...would really like to hear another of your postings after applying some of these suggestions and hear what you think.
 
thesoundtek said:
Since I know nothing of your initial set up / mic placement other than what you've stated I would like to make some suggestions on a different approach. To start make sure the kick mic and any mics that are pointed in an up direction (ie mic-ing the snare or hats from the bottom) are set out of phase on your DAW. You should notice an improvement in the lower response of the drum. Depending how far your overheads are from your drums, you may want to reverse the phase on these also. I've found that an X Y placement for overheads gives me the best results. Generally I do not roll the overheads off much above 100 or so ..of course it depends upon the type a sound you are striving for. I would also suggest an experiment for you. Once you get past fixing any problems that the drums have ( rattles, over ringing etc) record them and route them into a sub group and apply your eq and compression to the kit as a whole on that sub channel. With the drum kits I've mixed I'm finding that once I get an even balance on the kit (snare generally 3 db hotter than everything else)and if I do only minimal (if any) eq'ing to the individual drums and treat the kit as one instrument I'm getting some very good results. ...and if I'm not completely satisfied with the sound I then go to the individual tracks do whatever to get what I'm looking for. If you haven't already, experiment more with the placement of the snare and kick mics to see if you can get a fuller sound out them ie: aiming the kick mic more into the shell or more at the beater or aiming the snare mic more at the rim or even side or bottom of the snare ( don't forget the phase) or even moving the mic farther away or closer to improve the sound. If you are using mics on every drum (spot mics) you maybe picking up enough cymbal already..take your over heads and move them out in to the room more for a more natural ambience as opposed to just adding reverb. Try mic-ing your kit with the kick and the 2 overheads and see where that gets you. Most of the live and some studio work I've done mic-ing up jazz kits were just 3 mics and we got great results. Last thought for now, unless you are only going to record your drums solo your final drum eq may be quite different once mixed with the other instruments/vocals you are recording. Part of getting a great mix is to leave or make room for other instruments to sit in such as raising the hi-pass frequency on the kick to allow the bass to occupy that space and avoid overloading of like frequencies. I hope I'm not sounding condescending here..I'm just trying to explain something to someone that I have no idea on how much they do or do not know. Good luck...would really like to hear another of your postings after applying some of these suggestions and hear what you think.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the lengthy response. In the future I'm definitely going to experiment with the xy overhead setup as I think it will work best in my room. And I'm also going to try adjusting my snare mic placement to see what kind of difference that makes.
 
If anyone's interested, here's the project I was working on. A friend wrote/directed this short film and asked me to do a drum score. Would really appreciate if you could give it a watch/listen!

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top