Glyn Johns Drums

A

acattoir

New member
I hope this isn't worn out territory. Here is a short drum clip using the Glyn Johns recording method. I just tried it out and am really pleased.
Akg Perception 200 OH's
Audix D-6 Kick
Shure SM-57 snare
Drum line up: 26 kick with front head intact, 13, 16, 18, toms 14x10 SS snare

This recording is flat and dry with 9 and 3 oclock panning on the OH's
The level is a little low to preserve headroom.

Audio:

Pix:
http://acattoir.fileave.com/OH.jpg
http://acattoir.fileave.com/kick.jpg

I welcome comments or questions if you have any desire to try this out. I'll put them in a track soon.
ac
 
Beautiful kit and a good recording. I'm hearing the snare a little to the left, but not much. Kick sounds fantastic. Toms too. Great job overall.
 
I'm witchoo...I think they sound good.
Wish I could get my tuning to sound as good.
I've been using the Recorderman for awhile now but I just may give the GJ method a shot.
I like the stereo spread and the depth you've got. The cymbals seem just a wee bit buried but may fit nicely in a mix.

Anyway, nicely done and played well to boot.
:cool:
 
Sounds nice...i dont play the drums however its probably my favorite instrument...good sound quality to the recording as well.
 
I could not believe how easy this was. About the comments:

GregL: Yeah the snare is to the left. I left the stereo mix at full pan for the upload. I could see the snare problem on the VU's. I must have tracked it with the OH's not perfectly balanced. Just move to the left, it will sound perfect. Thanks for listening.

DogB: I have been teaching myself to not hit the cymbals really hard because they always get too loud in my mixes. I may be overdoing it. This isn't an ideal technique for a drummer that doesn't understand the concept of creating a mix while playing. Thanks for checking it out.

ac
 
That's pretty sweet!
The only thing that would worry me about this setup is the bleed in the kick mic; if you wanted to eq the to get more attack, you might end up boosting cymbals and God knows what. I'm eager to test it out though :)
Nice playing and a great sound.

Peace!

~Shawn
 
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sounds very nice. i would agree that i'd like to hear more cymbals although i bet they could be brought out a lot with some parallel compression.

this is a good testament to the fact that the Audix D6 can be used for more than just ultra scoopy sound
 
To Second S: Check my earlier post, I was hitting the crashes ever so gently. This was take two in my little adventure so there may be lots of room for improvements.

To Eyma: I think you are a TD-20 type guy, which I also record with, 100 percent isolation with them. Where's my track BTW???

I now have this curiousity about how this technique would work with a big kit and a lot of drums, octobans, side snare, a bazillion toms, blah blah blah. I don't have a kit like that at the moment but there is always tomorrow.

ac
 
acattoir said:
To Second S: Check my earlier post, I was hitting the crashes ever so gently. This was take two in my little adventure so there may be lots of room for improvements.

To Eyma: I think you are a TD-20 type guy, which I also record with, 100 percent isolation with them. Where's my track BTW???

I now have this curiousity about how this technique would work with a big kit and a lot of drums, octobans, side snare, a bazillion toms, blah blah blah. I don't have a kit like that at the moment but there is always tomorrow.

ac
Click to expand...

Record a basic beat with this setup and drop some guitars and bass on it to see how the drums sound in a real mix.
 
acattoir said:
To Eyma: I think you are a TD-20 type guy, which I also record with, 100 percent isolation with them. Where's my track BTW???

ac
Click to expand...

I definitely prefer real drums!!
I'm going out to the studio in a few mins to make your tracks. I think this technique will work fantasically on the geetar song!

Peace!

~Shawn
 
acattoir said:
This isn't an ideal technique for a drummer that doesn't understand the concept of creating a mix while playing.
Click to expand...

Most of the time (home recorders are the exception) the engineer setting up the mics for the kit isn't the one playing. It distracts from the performance if you are worrying about how you are hitting the skins or the cymbals. Spend a bit more time setting up your mics and testing out your setup before you play, and then let her rip when you hit the record button.

This is a really nice sounding kit, though. You did a real nice job (the left sounding snare aside) of capturing it.
 
Rokket said:
Most of the time (home recorders are the exception) the engineer setting up the mics for the kit isn't the one playing. It distracts from the performance if you are worrying about how you are hitting the skins or the cymbals. Spend a bit more time setting up your mics and testing out your setup before you play, and then let her rip when you hit the record button.

I understand your point and that is definitely standard practice. For me making decisions about how hard to hit a drum or a cymbal is no different than the playing of any other instrument. When you lay into bass strings you get a different tone than with a light touch. You might lay into the low E and play with a lighter touch on all the cool stuff above the 12th fret, as an example.
On my kit the kick sounds really good if I stomp the heck out of it, with the toms played medium hard. I may try to bite more head than rim on the snare or vise versa. Cymbals? Depends on the cymbal how hard I hit it for the desired sound.
This probably comes from a lot of playing not being mic'd up, so I've learned and am still learning how to sound good without the help of a recording engineer.
Thanks very much for the compliment. We'll see what happens to the kit in a mix. I imagine I'll have to change a few things.
ac
Click to expand...
 
acattoir said:
Rokket said:
Most of the time (home recorders are the exception) the engineer setting up the mics for the kit isn't the one playing. It distracts from the performance if you are worrying about how you are hitting the skins or the cymbals. Spend a bit more time setting up your mics and testing out your setup before you play, and then let her rip when you hit the record button.

I understand your point and that is definitely standard practice. For me making decisions about how hard to hit a drum or a cymbal is no different than the playing of any other instrument. When you lay into bass strings you get a different tone than with a light touch. You might lay into the low E and play with a lighter touch on all the cool stuff above the 12th fret, as an example.
On my kit the kick sounds really good if I stomp the heck out of it, with the toms played medium hard. I may try to bite more head than rim on the snare or vise versa. Cymbals? Depends on the cymbal how hard I hit it for the desired sound.
This probably comes from a lot of playing not being mic'd up, so I've learned and am still learning how to sound good without the help of a recording engineer.
Thanks very much for the compliment. We'll see what happens to the kit in a mix. I imagine I'll have to change a few things.
ac
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had some issues with those things when I first started recording. I also thought that the only way to capture the tone of an amp was to DI from the pre amp out straight to the board. :eeK;

It is a learning process. We find that we have to unlearn some bad habits when we add microphones that pick up all our mistakes and blare them at us.

You will have to do some tweaking when you get those drums in the mix. Guitars will bury your toms and the bass will do the same to the kick drum. But they sound nice right now.
Click to expand...
 
Greg_L said:
Record a basic beat with this setup and drop some guitars and bass on it to see how the drums sound in a real mix.
Click to expand...

Here's a oldie moldy covered with this drum recording method, just a rhythm track.
My observations first:
I was trying to stay true to the Johns method, that was the whole point to me and the drums sounded pretty cool as you all have mentioned.

BUT the whole large drums simply mic'd may only be useful for a very empty recording or a drum solo. AND as much as we all wax sentimental about the Bohnham sound, I think most of us don't really want their recordings to sound like that. Glyn Johns was said to have engineered those. (I have offended someone I know)

SO, I had to raise the pitch of all the drums to punch through the mix.

I couldn't tolerate how bad the 57 on top of the snare sounded no matter where I put it. Doink, doink, just doesn't cut it. So I mic'd the shell with a condenser.

AND, I am feeling less and less enamored with the big drums. When you tune them down to their sweet spot they tend to get thuddy and lost in the mix. The big kick is awsome to listen to in the room or record without any other instruments but that low fundimental gets masked and many system won't even reproduce it.

Rant complete.

The song: I will not be using this so I didn't spend a lot of time on it.......my excuse I guess.
 
i think it sounds great with the deep sounds though. you just need to adjust the EQ to get the attack to punch through i bet. this is where spot mics come in handy on the toms.

really though i think you are right with the simplified micing on the drums, it sounds great but the other instruments need to be limited in thier frequencies. big fat guitar chords get in the way.

and i still want to know...have you tried parallel compression on the drum bus?
 
There is a fair amount of eq here already. Had I not raised the pitch of everything it would have been a snare and cymbals affair. You know, scoup this push that, make a spot for everything.

The OH's are compressed at about 5:1, 20ms attack and 40ms release.

The eq on my stand alone is pretty limited 3 band with sweepable mid.

Extra mics, I'm trying hard to go the other way. You know the drill, mics on the toms need to be gated, then possible phasing issues. I have at times mic'd both sides of the toms and snare, plus oh's, room mics, and triggers. Oh boy, I hate it.

I'll probably off the Bonham kit in lieu of smaller sizes and continue to pursue the simple.

Thanks for listening.
ac
 
edit: upon reading this back i realize that i've taken this way off topic so just skip me if you want.

Extra mics, I'm trying hard to go the other way. You know the drill, mics on the toms need to be gated, then possible phasing issues. I have at times mic'd both sides of the toms and snare, plus oh's, room mics, and triggers. Oh boy, I hate it.
Click to expand...

i hear ya. i'm going the other way at the moment. i started with only 4 inputs on my interface so i was recording all drums with recorderman method. i've recently upgraded and am very much enjoying being able to have mics on my toms. the kit that i record most is my brothers(for my bands demos). it's an old Tama Granstar with a 22 kick and 13 and 15 toms. they are really deep sounding drums. i've gotten the 13 to sing but the 15 still has a ways to go to get it to have some sustain. and yeah gates are lame, i've been using downward expansion lately and it's better. but still not all the way there, does the trick when i don't feel like manually editing everything

lately if i'm using 4 mics or 400 i tend to put pretty standard mild compression on the track inserts with a mild limiter on the overheads and bus that to a stereo aux. the goal here is to get a nice natural sound. then i send the the whole mix to another aux with a really squashed compressor that is pumping with the music. this gets mixed in and really helps the drums stand up in the mix. it gives everything more sustain in general. it can sound un-natural if it's too high in the mix but i really like what it adds.

looks like this

http://i37.tinypic.com/b4dguf.jpg
 
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