andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Maybe he has a point, and that's why he keeps saying it....?
Frogetting
- Thread starter Armistice
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Maybe he has a point, and that's why he keeps saying it....?
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Armistice
Son of Yoda
OK - this is a thread about my tune - and it is quickly heading in a direction in which I didn't steer it.
I understand completely why that is. I'm not stupid. I get the dynamics involved. Please no-one say "He started it..." What are we, children? Passive aggression seems to live in the clinic these days.
Robus - thank you for your arrangement suggestion, as above. I have no issues with it at all, or with you making it. In this case I'm not taking it on board. Your other comments I'll examine when I get the chance, later today. No angst or anger here. We're good from my point of view. For everyone else, I give Robus plenty or arrangement suggestions on his stuff, so no issues with him returning the favour. I listen to everything anyone says, always.
Nola - you all but accused me of ripping off a famous Metallica song - perhaps light-heartedly, perhaps tangentially, but that's what you did. I didn't really appreciate that, by the way, but in doing so you just demonstrated your own ignorance. I am one of the more original songwriters here - you, my friend, are not. Nothing I've heard from you is even remotely original in structure, lyrical content or musicality. Three chords, a fuzz box and a pitchy voice is all you've got. Despite that, I've been positive and encouraging with you as I think what you do works in its own way. So eat your popcorn somewhere else, please. Let's not be more of a dick today than you already have been. See - that's how you do aggression. Nothing passive about it.
Andrush - if you have a point, make it, don't be oblique. If you agree with Robus' assessment, say that. Don't do what you're doing.
I'm going to report this thread now and leave it to the mods as to what to do with it. Kiss kiss.
Anyone else who happens along who wants to get back onto the topic of the tune, happy to discuss it with you. But I've already got "the guitars are too loud", trust me...
I understand completely why that is. I'm not stupid. I get the dynamics involved. Please no-one say "He started it..." What are we, children? Passive aggression seems to live in the clinic these days.
Robus - thank you for your arrangement suggestion, as above. I have no issues with it at all, or with you making it. In this case I'm not taking it on board. Your other comments I'll examine when I get the chance, later today. No angst or anger here. We're good from my point of view. For everyone else, I give Robus plenty or arrangement suggestions on his stuff, so no issues with him returning the favour. I listen to everything anyone says, always.
Nola - you all but accused me of ripping off a famous Metallica song - perhaps light-heartedly, perhaps tangentially, but that's what you did. I didn't really appreciate that, by the way, but in doing so you just demonstrated your own ignorance. I am one of the more original songwriters here - you, my friend, are not. Nothing I've heard from you is even remotely original in structure, lyrical content or musicality. Three chords, a fuzz box and a pitchy voice is all you've got. Despite that, I've been positive and encouraging with you as I think what you do works in its own way. So eat your popcorn somewhere else, please. Let's not be more of a dick today than you already have been. See - that's how you do aggression. Nothing passive about it.
Andrush - if you have a point, make it, don't be oblique. If you agree with Robus' assessment, say that. Don't do what you're doing.
I'm going to report this thread now and leave it to the mods as to what to do with it. Kiss kiss.
Anyone else who happens along who wants to get back onto the topic of the tune, happy to discuss it with you. But I've already got "the guitars are too loud", trust me...
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
I didn't think I was. Sometimes, repeated suggestions on music have some validity, so I've found myself. Unless I think everyone here is so completely full of sh!t, I would consider any suggestion, particularly those that keep arising. And if I laughed it off, it would be privately, not publicly. I can be confident in my music, but still take a moment to reflect on what others are saying...and if they keep saying it, maybe, possibly, there's some point. That's all I meant.
I've been told myself that my drums were too busy, and when I finally listened, the drumming got tons of compliments. Again, didn't think I was being cryptic or anything. And, for the record, the drums didn't ring me as being busy the two times I listened. I was more focused on the melody at the time.
all's good
Chili
Site Moderator
chill out and just be cool
I'm Chill, that's my name. Well, it's Chili, but close enough.
Great tune Arm. Not sure what version I'm listening to, which is good because I'm not being pre-biased with perceived changes or non-changes.
I like the main riff guitar up front like that. While not a melody, it is moving the song along and sets the mood. You have enough space between the main riff guitar and the lead vocals that they aren't stepping on each other. If it were in mono, that might be a different story.
I have always felt your drums were too buried. I hear them, but they are never a major force in your songs. I think this is because you are a guitar player and not a drummer. You have absolutely no mud in the mix. The mids and high mids have most of the energy, so you can push the drums (and bass somewhat) up to fill in the low end.
Most times 5:30 minutes is too long for a song, not this one. It lived and breathed and ended with grace. Very cool. Next time I listen I'll have my lava lamp on.
Cheers,
einstein magoo
Member
Haven't posted in quite a while but trying to get back into this.
Overall very nice! Sometimes, especially around 3:50 - 4:06 or so, kind of sounds like your drummer grew an extra arm. The cymbal hits with the tom rolls sound difficult. The counterpoint all works and to me throughout this sounds like real drums and they sound nice. I may be way off base, but I think I would maybe build a little percussion kit panned just very slightly to the right to hold those cymbal tings and bells, and maybe throw some subtle bongos or other percussion elements into that kit just for texture? This is just what I'm hearing.
Overall very nice! Sometimes, especially around 3:50 - 4:06 or so, kind of sounds like your drummer grew an extra arm. The cymbal hits with the tom rolls sound difficult. The counterpoint all works and to me throughout this sounds like real drums and they sound nice. I may be way off base, but I think I would maybe build a little percussion kit panned just very slightly to the right to hold those cymbal tings and bells, and maybe throw some subtle bongos or other percussion elements into that kit just for texture? This is just what I'm hearing.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Thanks Chill/Chili - i'll look into the drums but they're sounding pretty loud to me at the moment, but probably I need some space from it. Cheers
Armistice
Son of Yoda
Thanks magoo.
The drummer has a little Guatemalan slave boy called Juan who is tasked to stand by the ride cymbal and bell it in a couple of spots. If he rushes or drags, he's beaten.
He's paid $10 a month, which he sends back to his family, despite the fact that they sold him in the first place. Human relationships, huh? I never get them...
I'll have a look - I did pull a few out because I thought "that's impossibe" and was left with something that I thought was "difficult but Marco Minnerman could do it" where the two consecutive tom hits were done with the one hand and the other on the ride. But then, I don't play drums, so maybe it's not done that way. Where there's an actual roll featuring two hands, I think I cut out the cymbals.
All that said, I'm not a purist - there are 8 separate guitar tracks there, far more than, even with modern technology, a reasonable number of guitarists in any band could play - although loopers perhaps - so having the occasional extra cymbal hit here and there (thanks Juan, you'll get a mention in the liner notes) I'm OK with - although I do get the need to not make drums completely impossible to play for reasons of overall space, if nothing else.
If it was necessary for the song, as a world-famous producer, you'd say to your drummer after he'd just perfectly executed the complex but possible version that is the basis of the song, "Now go and just bell the ride a couple of times as I want to add an extra hit in here and there", and the drummer would at last think of himself as a complete band member and musician seeing he's now being asked to do overdubs like everyone else in the band gets to do to fix up their crappy playing, so how can any of this be a bad thing?
Problem is he'll try to crack onto the bass-player's girlfriend now, so there are downsides, I guess.
einstein magoo
Member
Thanks for the comments Armistice. I really wasn't trying to be critical, just something I noticed. And I am totally with you on the overdubs!
As I mentioned, I think the drums are very realistic sounding and Juan does do a great job of punching in at the right times! I'm just learning and trying to make my stuff as genuine as possible in terms of players ability to pull it off. That's why all of my stuff is super simple, probably to the point of boring.
You haven't heard anything from me yet cause I'm still struggling with finding the time to really learn how to use Reaper. I hope to be ready to post something here for comments some day, therefore, decided to get back into critical listening as I would hope others would do for me at some point.
I like the song a lot, and I like the cymbal hits! Thanks again!
As I mentioned, I think the drums are very realistic sounding and Juan does do a great job of punching in at the right times! I'm just learning and trying to make my stuff as genuine as possible in terms of players ability to pull it off. That's why all of my stuff is super simple, probably to the point of boring.
You haven't heard anything from me yet cause I'm still struggling with finding the time to really learn how to use Reaper. I hope to be ready to post something here for comments some day, therefore, decided to get back into critical listening as I would hope others would do for me at some point.
I like the song a lot, and I like the cymbal hits! Thanks again!
Good tune. Sounds nothing like Boston or Toto to me. ( or mettalica)
0nly thing that sticks out to me is the drums. To my ear they lack a bit of body, and sound placed back too far.
The levels are just fine, they just seem to have the wrong reverb on them.
Now, that could well be an artistic choice, and that would be fine. But since you put it up for critique, I thought I'd mention it.
( or mettalica)0nly thing that sticks out to me is the drums. To my ear they lack a bit of body, and sound placed back too far.
The levels are just fine, they just seem to have the wrong reverb on them.
Now, that could well be an artistic choice, and that would be fine. But since you put it up for critique, I thought I'd mention it.
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Armistice
Son of Yoda
Good tune. Sounds nothing like Boston or Toto to me.
0nly thing that sticks out to me is the drums. To my ear they lack a bit of body, and sound placed back too far.
The levels are just fine, they just seem to have the wrong reverb on them.
Now, that could well be an artistic choice, and that would be fine. But since you put it up for critique, I thought I'd mention it.
LOL - thanks RFR. The reverb on the main guitars is "printed" so I'm stuck with it - more an effect than a reverb/space thing - and it was an artistic choice - that said, all the other reverbed tracks, which is basically the vocals and a teensy bit on the kit are using a big big space convolution reverb via ReaVerb in varying amounts, and I've had the odd thought about how it all fits together.
At this stage I'll leave it alone, but I'll revisit it at some point in the future and that will be on the agenda, for sure.
Clearly my subtle reworking/borrowing of the Africa riff and the More Than A Feeling super saturated guitar solo folding into the song is way too subtle, seeing no-one's noticed it. Or have they?
Thanks for the listen.
I also need to calibrate my drum ears, as to me they're almost too much, but people have continually been saying "turn them up..." so there's something there...
Ah I see. So the drums is what they is.
But the other comments about turning them up I don't agree with. Like I said, levels are fine.
They are lacking in 'body', bottom end. So that and the verb makes them sound funny to me.
Now, If it wasn't the clinic and in the real world, ifyou handed ne the file/cd or whatever and said, "hey listen to the tune I just finished "........
I'd just say. "Good tune"
I guess in the clinic we're automatically in the mindset of looking for things to fix.
Hell, if I put up some of my early 90s music, complete with Alesis drum machine programs, you'd probably go "What the fuck is up with those drums, dude?!?"
Ps, critics got it wrong. I hear a hint of Ozzy in there.
But the other comments about turning them up I don't agree with. Like I said, levels are fine.
They are lacking in 'body', bottom end. So that and the verb makes them sound funny to me.
Now, If it wasn't the clinic and in the real world, ifyou handed ne the file/cd or whatever and said, "hey listen to the tune I just finished "........
I'd just say. "Good tune"
I guess in the clinic we're automatically in the mindset of looking for things to fix.
Hell, if I put up some of my early 90s music, complete with Alesis drum machine programs, you'd probably go "What the fuck is up with those drums, dude?!?"
Ps, critics got it wrong. I hear a hint of Ozzy in there.
DM60
Well-known member
First listening on HP's. Pretty good ones, but still HP's.
Looked over the comments, but I didn't read too deep in to it. But I did hear a hint a hint of Metallica at 1:28. But hey, I think it is a coincidence.
Mix, I liked it. Sounded solid to me. Everything balanced out as I think was intended. I wish I had something to give you that would improve it, but I don't, pretty solid mix.
Production and just opinion. Once again, I liked it. Good tune to sit back and chill out one. Maybe my age, but I liked the textures, the playing with how the guitars works in and out of the song but doesn't get in the way of the vocals.
Over all, I think it sounded good, mix, playing and production. Good stuff and it sounds like you took your time on it and didn't just push it out.
Looked over the comments, but I didn't read too deep in to it. But I did hear a hint a hint of Metallica at 1:28. But hey, I think it is a coincidence.
Mix, I liked it. Sounded solid to me. Everything balanced out as I think was intended. I wish I had something to give you that would improve it, but I don't, pretty solid mix.
Production and just opinion. Once again, I liked it. Good tune to sit back and chill out one. Maybe my age, but I liked the textures, the playing with how the guitars works in and out of the song but doesn't get in the way of the vocals.
Over all, I think it sounded good, mix, playing and production. Good stuff and it sounds like you took your time on it and didn't just push it out.