"Forgiven"

sullivan1213

New member
I wrote this song with a very good friend of mine who had just been to the funeral of someone who had taken his own life. He was playing the acoustic riff over and over and just talking about his friend and the lyrics just materialized. That was the easy part. The idea is to present the song, when finished, to the daughter of the deceased as a gift. That fact sent me into perfectionist overdrive. I didn't have the gear or the skills to make it sound how I heard it in my head when it was written so I worked it a little at a time as I collected better gear and better ears. I think it's pretty close now.

The solo guitars are "scratch" and have to be redone. The bridge and outro are also missing some solo work I intend to record. There is also an "adlib" vocal planned for the outro.

I would welcome and appreciate any feedback.

Enjoy,

BTW: Cubase 9.5, Apollo quad twin MKII, Superior 2.0, Amplitube
 

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Good song-nice gesture to present it to your friends daughter. As far as the mix, it sounds good to me, though there's a general distance from the sounds that keeps it sounding kind of small to me. Some of this is in the use of reverbs, for example the opening acoustics sound too washed out to me-the verb is overshadowing the the attack of the notes imo. Sounds like there's verb on the distorted electrics when they come in later, again it seems to move the guitars back away from the listener. The tones and playing are excellent-i would want those sounds coming from outside the speaker if possible. Vocals sound very good and good performance-they're out front and carrying the tune like they should. The drums sound well played/programmed? The snare is kind of low imo-seems like some more snare would move the kit forward and drive the tune some more. Bass guitar i don't notice at all really, if you said there wasn't one id believe you-the guitars are carrying a nice think bottom end, but having a distinct bass part might push the song up a level. Overall though i think the song is coming across well with a strong vocal performance, and no obvious problems with the mix, nice work!
 
Yeah.. that pretty much covers it. It's got a very commercial sound, and your voice is selling it - nice voice.
 
Great tune man! Love the reason for it as well.

Vocals jump out a bit on choruses.

I agree the low end of bass guitar should drive a bit more. It needs some love down there.

Overall totally giving you props on this man! Cheers!
 
Thank you so much for the detailed feedback. I knew there was something about the guitars that bothered me but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I will definitely take the comments on the bass as well. I plan to revise and resubmit tomorrow. Thanks again for the insight.
 
Something is being compressed very hard. I think it's the drums. I'd def fix that. The kick is suffering the most, in that regard. The kick is also very loud.

Guitars sound very thin. I'm not sure the bass is complimenting them as much as it could be - just an eq thing. How have you EQ'd these guitars? The heavy distorted guitars are just as thin as the acoustic guitars, and you can hear that similarity during the fadeout. There's not much meat to the electrics.

Vocals sound great.

So, I'd adjust that drum compression and re-balance the levels across the board. Good song and performances. And really good vocals :thumbs up:
 
Something is being compressed very hard. I think it's the drums. I'd def fix that. The kick is suffering the most, in that regard. The kick is also very loud.

Guitars sound very thin. I'm not sure the bass is complimenting them as much as it could be - just an eq thing. How have you EQ'd these guitars? The heavy distorted guitars are just as thin as the acoustic guitars, and you can hear that similarity during the fadeout. There's not much meat to the electrics.

Vocals sound great.

So, I'd adjust that drum compression and re-balance the levels across the board. Good song and performances. And really good vocals :thumbs up:

+1

I agree about the drum buss compression. It obviously is not the master out compression because it is not 'pumping' there. But there does seem to be a disconnect between the drums and the instruments.

andrush is really good with this style and I would take his advice to heart. Find that sweet eq that separates the guitars and gives the heavy guitars energy to build the song with the dynamics it needs.

And holy shit dood, I wish I had singers as good as that performance in my studio all the time. I spend more time fixing than enjoying most of the time. A pleasure just to hear a natural singer sing... :)
 
Again, thank you all for the kind words and the great observations. It's amazing how valuable other people's ears can be in identifying issues.

I have adjusted reverb levels on the acoustic and electric guitars, the EQ on all the guitars, compression and levels on the drums, bass level and a few other miscellaneous items. I know it's far from perfect but I'm hoping it's an improvement. New mix has been added to my original post.
 
Had a chance for a quick listen of the new mix. Much better man! Still heard some weirdness with the cymbals. Are they grouped in same compression buss as the drums? I usually treat overheads differently so they don't get squashed. Keep them open so they sizzle out, not choke out.

Overall tho man, it is sounding way better to my ears on my system. Great progress bro!

I'll listen again soon. Gotta have surgery tomorrow so it time for me to relax.

Cheers!
 
It’s so funny that you say that. I was listening in the car thinking “I wonder if I need to make sure the overheads aren’t routed to the compression bus.” I guess I have my answer.

I have to compliment you and this whole community. I’m super impressed with the skill level here and the willingness to help that you all have. I’m really happy to have found this site. I hope I get the chance to return the favor.

Thanks much! I’ll post a remix tomorrow.
 
It’s so funny that you say that. I was listening in the car thinking “I wonder if I need to make sure the overheads aren’t routed to the compression bus.” I guess I have my answer.

I have to compliment you and this whole community. I’m super impressed with the skill level here and the willingness to help that you all have. I’m really happy to have found this site. I hope I get the chance to return the favor.

Thanks much! I’ll post a remix tomorrow.

Cool man. Looking forward to it!
 
Listened to 9-16 mix. Much, much better. The song is breathing now.

How are the guitars panned? Want to try moving the heavy pair out a little further? Maybe 75-100% L and R? If this were me, and I'm just guessing obviously I don't have this in front of me... but my fingers and ears would want to do this:

heaviest chorus guitars - 100 L and R
jangly verse acoustics - 75-80 L and R
solo/lead set - i'd try both 85 and 50, see which sounds better, prob 50 though

I love drummer's perspective. Glad the hat's on the left side. How are the toms panned, also? That 03:57 fill should be moving around my ears and calling out around me. It's a little too linear, I think, seems close to down the middle. Or am I imaging things? I very well could be, because I hear a floor tom at the very end.

This is really a huge improvement.
 
Ok. Got home late from work and tried to work with suggestions. I figured out the panning issue with both the guitars and the toms. I had all the toms routed to a compressor that, apparently sums the input signal thereby ruining the panning of the toms. I had to create separate compression busses for each tom panned the same as the toms themselves. on the guitars I had the same exact issue but with a doubler effect that I had all of them routed to. I simply created a left and right of that and voila! I realize the solo sections sound wonky. They are placeholders anyway so I didn't spend any time on those.

I really am stoked to be on this forum. You guys really have a lot of talent and knowledge and are very willing to help others out. I dig it. Thanks again for your kind advice.
 
Sadly, AFTER I uploaded a remix I realized that the toms are still not right and get washed out most of the time. That’s what I get for being in a hurry. I’ll try again tomorrow when I have more time.
 
Sadly, AFTER I uploaded a remix I realized that the toms are still not right and get washed out most of the time. That’s what I get for being in a hurry. I’ll try again tomorrow when I have more time.


Sullivan ... sensational work!!!

I can't add much more than what has already been said but on my first listen, I'd add a bit more meat to the bottom end... not sure if you've fixed it but I decided to listen on crappy speakers first rather than my monitors which makes everything sound (too) perfect ... I can hear pretty much everything super clearly... guitar solo might be a little bit thin and too far back in the mix but overall it sounds great.

Kick is still a bit dominant compared to the snare (which also might need a bit more meat) but we're getting into personal preference territory here.

Vocals / backing vocals are brilliant... maybe pull back the level a fraction as it sometimes sits a bit too far out in front ... not a biggie though.

Just a technical questions - how did you record your guitars (acoustic and electric) ... did you mike them or are they DI?
 
Acoustic guitars were recorded with a pair of Rode NT5 small diaphragm condenser mics. Electrics were recorded dry with a direct box and reamped through Amplitube.

I appreciate your observations. Thanks very much.
 
Cool sounding crunch guitars and bass when the song kicks in.

I'd nudge down the acoustic guitars during the verse. Just a bit, to give the vocal more space. The electric guitar didn't seem to cause a problem for the vocal.

The lead solo has a bunch of reverb and is pushed back in the mix a bit.

Good strong singing voice.

There seemed like some excessive background noise during the intro. It was so loud it almost seemed intentional. But I could really figure out what it was. Crickets?

The mix is limited pretty hard.
 
Ok. Got some time today and took another run at it. Made further adjustments to the toms, pulled the snare up a little more, the kick down a little more and tried to fix the way the 2 solo sections were sitting in the mix. I would appreciate any further critique good or bad. I feel like it's pretty close.

Thank you all again,
 
Quick listen tells me you are way better than when you started. Sounds really good man!

I'll listen again in morning with fresh ears.

My heart tells me there needs a simple solo guitar melody at the end to finish out the tune....
 
sounds really good to me. i had my vol knob pretty low as it seems really loud to me and almost missed the ambient sound at the end. is that a sample?
overall its really well done with very powerful lyrics and delivered as well as any pro i've heard in the last decade.
 
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