First mix- Original song. Looking for some specific feedback.

C

cmharwood89

New member
Hi all,
This is an original piece, and my first-ever mix. (Attached)

I read Carl Koryat's book cover-to-cover, which helped me get more systematic with my bussing, EQ, compression, etc. It definitely helped, but I'm still fighting with some aspects, particularly percussive peaks eating up my headroom and some overall harshness.

I've got the guitar channels (one DI and one mic'd on the 12th fret) run through sequential compression. Really gentle in the first stage (1.5:1 w/ 3ms attack on a 5ms RMS), followed by a more aggressive/faster stage (5:1 w/ 2ms attack on a 0.5ms RMS). Even so, I'm finding I have to beat those "slaps" into submission to keep them from clipping. Any pointers?

Additionally, I did my best to make the vocals sound a little warmer and less harsh, but I'm still not quite getting the sound I want. I tried not to boost or cut by more than 2-3 dB. Could I just be suffering from the overly-bright-cheap-condenser-mic problem? I'm using the MXL-990 (I know, nobody's favorite), but I anticipate doing the circuit/capsule mods sooner or later. Maybe I'll make it sooner. I record mostly acoustic/folksy stuff, so I'd prefer something a little fuller for vocals.

I welcome any and all other feedback on the mix and/or performance (though this is only demo-status at the moment).

Thanks!

EDIT--

Oops! Looks like my attachment is oversized. Soundcloud link is here:

https://soundcloud.com/casey-harwood/the-fishermans-friend-test-track
 

Attachments

  • Fisherman's Friend.mp3
    8.9 MB · Views: 13
Last edited:
The space on the voice is different from the space on the guitar. I'm thinking they should be similar, since this tune's a guitarist singer song. I'd put more space on the voice, cuz the guitar sound is delicious and if the voice were in that space, the tune would be gorgeous.

You might want to reduce the vocal a dB too.
 
For something like voice and acoustic guitar, sure - it makes them sound like they're in the same space, which is pretty natural. What I'm hearing now is that the voice is brighter than the guitar - notice how the voice is really clear and well-defined but how the guitar's got just a touch of darkness and obscurity to it? What would it sound like if you reduced some of the low mids from the guitar?
 
Thanks for the pointer. I'll reduce some of the low mids. I might have too much of the guitar's DI channel present as well- that tends to sound kind of dark. I'll give it a shot this afternoon.

I've also got mixed feelings about the shaker track. I recorded the shaker, picked the best bar, and made a loop, but now the timing seems too robotic and, well... looped.
 
cmharwood89 said:
I've also got mixed feelings about the shaker track. I recorded the shaker, picked the best bar, and made a loop, but now the timing seems too robotic and, well... looped.
Click to expand...

Yeah, robotic shaker is robotic. It's easy enough to record a shaker track with a real shaker, but you might get more mileage out of muting certain sections of that shaker track and bringing it in only when you want to ramp up the energy a bit - a chorus, for instance.
 
dobro said:
What I'm hearing now is that the voice is brighter than the guitar - notice how the voice is really clear and well-defined but how the guitar's got just a touch of darkness and obscurity to it? What would it sound like if you reduced some of the low mids from the guitar?
Click to expand...

Okay, third time's the charm, I'm hoping. I rolled off the low mids and it brighten up the guitar just a tad. I nudged down the high-cut frequency on the reverb a little to minimize some of the artificial hiss I was starting to hear. I also widened the stereo image on the guitar a little. Let me know if you think the changes help/hurt.

https://soundcloud.com/casey-harwood/the-fishermans-friend-rev3

Bruthish said:
Beautiful song.....Love love love the guitar sound.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bruthish! I was worried that the DI guitar track would be dead-sounding and useless, but I found that it complements the mic pretty well and adds some body, as long as I don't add too much. Phase issues were confounding me for a while though.

My one day in a semi-pro studio was at at the mercy of an overly reverb-happy engineer, so I'm always a little wary of too much space. I'm glad that the reverb here didn't come across as overdone!

BTW, thanks for taking the time to give me feedback, guys. It helps to have more-experienced ears take a listen. I know I haven't got the technical chops to give mixing advice to anybody, but I'll try to offer my share of subjective feedback on others' work.
 
Not too much to add, except to say that it's a really nice song and performance. Love the percussive guitar. That plus the story song reminds me of James Taylor. Concur that the shaker doesn't add much right now - a live shaker would probably be better.
 
This sounds really good. Well done!

Adding: If there is anything, I would like to see is maybe lower the vocals a tad so that guitar also comes in the picture.
 
Yeah, it's not like the voice is going to get overpowered by the guitar part, and if he dropped vox 1.5, it would sound like a guy singing and playing at the same time. Right now, it sounds like a guy playing guitar and another guy singing five feet in front of him.
 
Thanks guys, for the feedback and for the encouragement.

I actually dropped the vocals by ~1.5 yesterday after listening to the mix on some other speakers. I'm mixing on some less-than-stellar headphones right now. I also realized that my de-esser plugin resets every time I start the DAW, so the last mix I posted had some extra sibilance.

Last question, I swear: Do you think I'd benefit from upgrading the mic? Even with a boost to the low mids and reducing everything above 5kHz, I feel like the vocals are a touch thin and over-bright. I'm wary of more EQ.
I'm really interested in modding the MXL 990 mods to warm up the sound, but I don't have the experience to say whether the sound I'm getting now is typical of condensers, or if it needs improvement.
 
cmharwood89 said:
Thanks guys, for the feedback and for the encouragement.

I actually dropped the vocals by ~1.5 yesterday after listening to the mix on some other speakers. I'm mixing on some less-than-stellar headphones right now. I also realized that my de-esser plugin resets every time I start the DAW, so the last mix I posted had some extra sibilance.

Last question, I swear: Do you think I'd benefit from upgrading the mic? Even with a boost to the low mids and reducing everything above 5kHz, I feel like the vocals are a touch thin and over-bright. I'm wary of more EQ.
I'm really interested in modding the MXL 990 mods to warm up the sound, but I don't have the experience to say whether the sound I'm getting now is typical of condensers, or if it needs improvement.
Click to expand...

Just a few suggestions that 'may' work:

1. Use multiple speakers to check the mix. Try it int car , headphone, mono and such. If they sound good in all, it will sound great.
2. Try a dynamic microphone like SM 58 or 57. Usually has more low end than condenser ones. Also the mic position affects the sound. lower to the chest more low end, higher up by the nose, more high end.
3. And no need to buy it. Get a couple, try it and return it back. If you like it, keep it.
 
Agreed regarding the vocal and guitar sounding like done by two people, the vocal being brighter. This could be because of the compression you did to the guitar. To tame some of the string squeak, have you tried coated strings? Some folks don't like them (it depends on your guitar), but using coated PBs the sound is sometimes brighter than expected.
 
Hey, I just tried something - I listened to the tune through headphones to check out the depth perception. Headphones mess with that. Through speakers, it sounds like a singer in front of a guitar player. Through headphones, that in front/behind thing disappears.
 
cmharwood89 said:
Thanks guys, for the feedback and for the encouragement.

I actually dropped the vocals by ~1.5 yesterday after listening to the mix on some other speakers. I'm mixing on some less-than-stellar headphones right now. I also realized that my de-esser plugin resets every time I start the DAW, so the last mix I posted had some extra sibilance.

Last question, I swear: Do you think I'd benefit from upgrading the mic? Even with a boost to the low mids and reducing everything above 5kHz, I feel like the vocals are a touch thin and over-bright. I'm wary of more EQ.
I'm really interested in modding the MXL 990 mods to warm up the sound, but I don't have the experience to say whether the sound I'm getting now is typical of condensers, or if it needs improvement.
Click to expand...

You *boosted* the low mids on that vocal part? Wow. Yeah, what you want is a mic that you don't have to EQ much.

If you're exploring new mics for vocals in the studio, I'd try this before a 58:

SM7B Vocal Microphone | Shure Americas

It's pretty affordable, really good, and if it works for your voice it'll do you good for recording. I've got one, and it isn't quite as detailed or bright as the LD condenser I use sometimes, but it always sounds good. It's a hog for gain, though.
 
anoopbal said:
Just a few suggestions that 'may' work:

1. Use multiple speakers to check the mix. Try it int car , headphone, mono and such. If they sound good in all, it will sound great.
2. Try a dynamic microphone like SM 58 or 57. Usually has more low end than condenser ones. Also the mic position affects the sound. lower to the chest more low end, higher up by the nose, more high end.
3. And no need to buy it. Get a couple, try it and return it back. If you like it, keep it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm trying to get into the habit of listening across more platforms. Thanks for the tip. That's a great point on mic placement, and one that I actually hadn't thought of. The one engineer I recorded with kept repeating his mantra of "mic aimed at the bridge of the nose," so I blindly followed suit- I think that definitely contributed to the thin, nasal sound pre-EQ. Before I try other mics, I'll give this one a more-thorough trial in different positions.

mjbphotos said:
Agreed regarding the vocal and guitar sounding like done by two people, the vocal being brighter. This could be because of the compression you did to the guitar. To tame some of the string squeak, have you tried coated strings? Some folks don't like them (it depends on your guitar), but using coated PBs the sound is sometimes brighter than expected.
Click to expand...

I have tried coated strings, and I'm usually pretty happy with them. These are coated strings, in fact, but I think they're due for a change. Cleartones are my choice. When I move from demo to "final" recording on this tune, I'll definitely work harder to keep the string squeak down.

dobro said:
You *boosted* the low mids on that vocal part? Wow. Yeah, what you want is a mic that you don't have to EQ much.

If you're exploring new mics for vocals in the studio, I'd try this before a 58:

SM7B Vocal Microphone | Shure Americas

It's pretty affordable, really good, and if it works for your voice it'll do you good for recording. I've got one, and it isn't quite as detailed or bright as the LD condenser I use sometimes, but it always sounds good. It's a hog for gain, though.
Click to expand...

That looks promising, but I'm on a shoestring budget. Like I said in reply to anoopbal, I'm going to experiment with mic placement before looking at upgrades. This was my first recording with the condenser mic, after all. I'll add that Shure to my short-list for my next studio acquisition, though!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top