On The Edge

I'm hearing conflict between the vocal and the rhythm guitar in some places, noticed it in the first verse. Didn't you have the guitar panned wider before?
 
Hi, Ido. My first impression on listening to this mix is that the whole thing seems to cut off at about 8 kHz. The upper frequencies and the "Air" seem to be completely missing. The instruments are balanced well, the performances are good but it's missing the HF "sheen". The lead vocal isn't really taking centre stage like it should.
 
Thanks for the listen Rob. Same settings on rhythm guitars as the previous mix. The lead guitar which was panned 15% or so to the left side before was covering up the left side of the rhythm guitar section. There are 4 rhythm tracks - 2 on either side. Set 1 is panned 60/60 and set 2 are panned 70/70. Same guitar (Les Paul Custom) 3 different settings. Set 1 is same on either side, set 2 is two different settings. Each side has a clean rhythm, and each has a touch of over driven rhythm sitting in under that (slightly different on each side) to give it a bit of dirt.

You mentioned you wanted a better balance between the over driven lead and the rhythm but it wasn't supposed to sound like OD and clean on either side. There was an underlying stereo rhythm in the mix. This mix moves the lead guitar center opening back up the stereo rhythm section.

Now that they are more audible maybe they are a tad too high in the mix. Or maybe compress them a little harder.
 
Bubba po said:
Hi, Ido. My first impression on listening to this mix is that the whole thing seems to cut off at about 8 kHz. The upper frequencies and the "Air" seem to be completely missing. The instruments are balanced well, the performances are good but it's missing the HF "sheen". The lead vocal isn't really taking centre stage like it should.
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Thank Bubba - there's no master EQ yet on this mix. That's something we have yet to play around with. It's pretty much as it comes off the amps/mics at the moment. Thanks for the heads up - time to look at that aspect of mixing. :D:D:D:D

Edit - maybe just the vocal track ? Upping 8k in Sonar on the whole mix does bring out the vocals but unfortunately also the cymbals a bit too much.
 
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Gerry,
yeah do the vox in their track. You might try a gentle sheen lift on the master but it'd have to be subtle.
The lead is very cool.
I like this mix.
 
I'm not hearing the 'lack of air' that Bubba mentions. Maybe a little added on the vocal would do something. Is there any reverb on the vocal?
 
rayc said:
Gerry,
yeah do the vox in their track. You might try a gentle sheen lift on the master but it'd have to be subtle.
The lead is very cool.
I like this mix.
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Hi Ray - I agree - just the vocals would be the best bet on this one for a slight "air" boost. Got your note on the lead on the OP so Mike upped it just the right amount I think.

mjbphotos said:
I'm not hearing the 'lack of air' that Bubba mentions. Maybe a little added on the vocal would do something. Is there any reverb on the vocal?
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Yes - a plate reverb (VintageVocalPlate) on all the vocals. It has a pre-delay of 20ms which allows a bit more dry vocal into the master - sounds a little more subtle than say a concert hall. I prefer the "Plate" generally, but I was talking to Mike about a secondary reverb send the other day. The rest of the instruments are on a LexPlate and I'm curious to see if sending a tiny bit of everything to a "master reverb" would gel them a bit more.
I would like to hear anyone's pros and cons regarding that.... :D:D:D:D
 
The first thing that hit me was that the mix was good, but "small." You're getting conflicting views, so it's ultimately up to you, but I also feel that "smallness" is prob at least partly of what BP was saying. The sound spectrum sounds limited, within a confining space. As I listen, I keep thinking expansion, expansion. But definitely not by some stereo widener (unless you chose to). Just "more sound."
 
sammydix said:
The first thing that hit me was that the mix was good, but "small." You're getting conflicting views, so it's ultimately up to you, but I also feel that "smallness" is prob at least partly of what BP was saying. The sound spectrum sounds limited, within a confining space. As I listen, I keep thinking expansion, expansion. But definitely not by some stereo widener (unless you chose to). Just "more sound."
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Thanks for the listen and comments Sammy. I don't get what you're referring to when you say "small" or "more sound". If you can be more specific and suggest how you would change the mix that would be great. :D:D:D:D
 
ido1957 said:
Thanks for the listen and comments Sammy. I don't get what you're referring to when you say "small" or "more sound". If you can be more specific and suggest how you would change the mix that would be great. :D:D:D:D
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Reading back my comment last night it seems a bit terse! I didn't mean it to come over that way. :D My best description is that the soundscape might be a little "middly" and might benefit from a bit of boom/sizzle.

ido1957 said:
I was talking to Mike about a secondary reverb send the other day. The rest of the instruments are on a LexPlate and I'm curious to see if sending a tiny bit of everything to a "master reverb" would gel them a bit more.
I would like to hear anyone's pros and cons regarding that.... :D:D:D:D
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I do this every time. I think it works brilliantly and if you pick the right reverb for the job, it needn't be obtrusive. My mixes are notably a bit "wetter" than some people prefer, that's just my style, but there's no denying that a well-chosen space can work absolute wonders on a mix.
 
Bubba po said:
Reading back my comment last night it seems a bit terse! I didn't mean it to come over that way. :D My best description is that the soundscape might be a little "middly" and might benefit from a bit of boom/sizzle.



I do this every time. I think it works brilliantly and if you pick the right reverb for the job, it needn't be obtrusive. My mixes are notably a bit "wetter" than some people prefer, that's just my style, but there's no denying that a well-chosen space can work absolute wonders on a mix.
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Hey Bubba - never considered your comments terse in any way :D so don't ever worry about that. I did play around with the 8K area on the mix but doing so just accentuated the cymbals too much, I guess that's to be expected when everything is affected by the slider. Addressing the mix as a whole before the lift would be my best bet.

Cool about the "master" reverb - any suggestions as to what type and mix % to play around with? Send on the master?
 
ido1957 said:
Hey Bubba - never considered your comments terse in any way :D so don't ever worry about that. I did play around with the 8K area on the mix but doing so just accentuated the cymbals too much, I guess that's to be expected when everything is affected by the slider. Addressing the mix as a whole before the lift would be my best bet.

Cool about the "master" reverb - any suggestions as to what type and mix % to play around with? Send on the master?
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I use Reaper, and the way I do it is to set up a track that I label "Reverb" and drop my favourite plugin into it. A medium hall preset works well for me, you can adjust the size of the hall, the brightness, etc. I set the wetness to 100%. Then if you click on the sends/receives ( I/O ) button on the track there's an option to add receives from all tracks, which I do. Then I take out the kick drum and the bass guitar, set the reverb track volume to about 2/3 and adjust the relative amount of send on each track. Vocals and snare get a bit more send than overheads and guitars. When you have the balances to your satisfaction, you can pull the fader down, then tweak it up until you get just the exact amount of space that sounds right to you.

Regarding the EQ lift, I would suggest a tiny shelf in the 10-12k area, that's all. A similar bump in the 50-100 area might sound nice, too. Be subtle, though.
 
ido1957 said:
Thanks for the listen and comments Sammy. I don't get what you're referring to when you say "small" or "more sound". If you can be more specific and suggest how you would change the mix that would be great. :D:D:D:D
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Sorry. That's what I thought I was saying with "limited in the sound spectrum." Like extreme highs and lows were chopped away. Also what I meant by "expansion" (of freqs). I was hearing pretty much the same things as BP but going just by the sound since I rarely to never use analyzers. I got a feeling of something "missing" (freqs). Small was an awful choice of words. I'll do better, promise!
 
Nice tune, it's got a real driving feel and the performances are great. I hear the lack of presence that others mention, but it just sounds like something that a limiter on the master would clear up. Have you already got one on set low or are you planning on sending for mastering at some point? I dunno, that's all it sounds like it's missing to me.
 
Bubba po said:
I use Reaper, and the way I do it is to set up a track that I label "Reverb" and drop my favourite plugin into it. A medium hall preset works well for me, you can adjust the size of the hall, the brightness, etc. I set the wetness to 100%. Then if you click on the sends/receives ( I/O ) button on the track there's an option to add receives from all tracks, which I do. Then I take out the kick drum and the bass guitar, set the reverb track volume to about 2/3 and adjust the relative amount of send on each track. Vocals and snare get a bit more send than overheads and guitars. When you have the balances to your satisfaction, you can pull the fader down, then tweak it up until you get just the exact amount of space that sounds right to you.

Regarding the EQ lift, I would suggest a tiny shelf in the 10-12k area, that's all. A similar bump in the 50-100 area might sound nice, too. Be subtle, though.
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Ok - I hear you on the subtle - even a tiny eq at 8K was a big change on the main mix.

sammydix said:
Sorry. That's what I thought I was saying with "limited in the sound spectrum." Like extreme highs and lows were chopped away. Also what I meant by "expansion" (of freqs). I was hearing pretty much the same things as BP but going just by the sound since I rarely to never use analyzers. I got a feeling of something "missing" (freqs). Small was an awful choice of words. I'll do better, promise!
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No apologies needed Sammy - the devil is in the details - since you mention the "spectrum ends" are lacking we can have a listen and try and bring some back in.

robgreen said:
Nice tune, it's got a real driving feel and the performances are great. I hear the lack of presence that others mention, but it just sounds like something that a limiter on the master would clear up. Have you already got one on set low or are you planning on sending for mastering at some point? I dunno, that's all it sounds like it's missing to me.
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Thanks Rob - there is a limiter on the master (Concrete Limiter) to get the volume up a bit - nothing extreme on the settings. We can try mastering this in Ozone which Mike has on his computer - we've played with it a bit and it did give another tune a real nice polish (not just volume).
 
I liked the snare sound. Compressed hard and great pop. Drums sound good all around.

The rhythm guitars sound kind of muffled.

The kick is louder than the bass.

I'd bring up the backing vox just a nudge. And add a bit more reverb. Make them just a bit more lush.

I'd nudge up that riff/accent guitar just a bit. It's staying out of the way of the vocal just fine. I'd like to hear it sitting a bit more out front.
 
TripleM said:
I liked the snare sound. Compressed hard and great pop. Drums sound good all around.

The rhythm guitars sound kind of muffled.

The kick is louder than the bass.

I'd bring up the backing vox just a nudge. And add a bit more reverb. Make them just a bit more lush.

I'd nudge up that riff/accent guitar just a bit. It's staying out of the way of the vocal just fine. I'd like to hear it sitting a bit more out front.
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Thanks TripleM - glad to hear the drums sound good as Mike's been working on them since the last mix. We can look into the other items like rhythms/kick/Bkups/lead and other comments above later in the week as we are both super busy this week (as usual) with work. I just got off work and it's after 8pm arghhh! :D:D:D:D
 
Great song, everything sounds balanced well. I might take a little of the boom out of the bass but that may be down to my listening environment.
 
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