Climb The Wall - alternative/pop/rock mix

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Here is the mix I am going with for now. I took some comments into account and touched up a few things. I will probably give it a once-over before I submit the raw mix for mastering, eventually. Please let me know how it turned out, if ya can. Thanks everyone.

 
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I thought overall the mix was pretty good.

The crunch guitars that come in at :32 sound a bit amp-simmy. The other guitars, both clean and distorted, sounded very good.

Vocals sounded great.

During the big kick in/chorus, I don't think I'd change much of anything. Nice dynamics - big punch.

Drums sound fine.
 
TripleM said:
I thought overall the mix was pretty good.

The crunch guitars that come in at :32 sound a bit amp-simmy. The other guitars, both clean and distorted, sounded very good.

Vocals sounded great.

During the big kick in/chorus, I don't think I'd change much of anything. Nice dynamics - big punch.

Drums sound fine.
Click to expand...

I needed something brighter and sharper to contrast with the heavy/dark main rhythm guitars. if they're all dark and have the same girth, they won't stand out. I'll look into it, but the basic sounds are burnt into the track now. I don't think I'd go back and change the amp sim, to be honest. I can see about top end EQ adjustments, perhaps. Thanks 3M
 
Guitars sound smooth. The mix turns up well, not hearing anything grating or obnoxious. Guitars could come down a bit, IMO. Love the bridge, that "top of all the world" part.

You're tracking and saving the raw DI guitar, aren't you? Beats having to retrack if you decide you want a different amp sim in the future.

Zero clipping is just good policy, IMO. A tiny bit of clipping in some plugin might not even be audible, but it just feels better knowing it's not there. All the digital technology we are using creates multiple places where clipping can hide--oodles of plugins, sub-mix buses, etc. I can't tell you the number of times I though I had a great mix, only to open a plugin and see red. Eliminating all that stuff is good training in how to gain stage a mix.
 
I feel like I vaguely remember the previous mix... but not enough to compare the two.

The only nit that sticks out at first is the hard-panned hi-hat.
 
I don't hear any major problems, and you can probably roll with this mix. If you want "ntis": at times, the vocal sounds a little out in front of the band. I think it's because of the music getting quieter and/or vocal automation. Guitars could come down a hair at the 3:00 mark section. Nice job, overall. Especially the low end. Sounds spot on.
 
The drums could be a bit more centered until the first guitar comes in in the center. I agree with VHS about the hi hat, though I liked the section where it was on beats 1 and 3, made a nice heartbeat thing. I wonder if a single echo or a delay effect on the hi hat in the other speaker would be cool there to give it space and mess with the stoners.


The vocals are nice and forward. The mix has real height through my setup. Nice job. I can pretty much hear the radio DJ coming on to back announce after the end.
 
I remember this one. There used to be a running joke around here about climbing a wall...

Like the smoothness of the bass.

I am not sure I do agree. I think I have heard more powerful guitars from you. These are perfectly fine though. On my system sounds like less tone? I dunno. The 3:04 section is guitar heavy but much of the rest of the song isn't.

Hat click at the 3:40 section is a bit loud IMO. Just an opening and closing of a hat usually is not so prominent. To my ear it's basically the same volume as the snare, except in this style the drummer should be beating the snare pretty hard.

At the beginning there is one particular tom fill that sounds too loud every time to me. Others all sound perfect. It's the one that happens at :08, :16, :23, :38.

Really like the ride bell sound in the chorus. Cool touch.

Nice job. Great tune.
 
Nice job. Like the tune. I like the way the vocals sit - not sure how you do it exactly but they sit nicely in the mix. I think the guitars sound powerful and aggressive and perfectly match the song. As always, top notch.
 
Nice! I love your music, and your mixes are always a pleasure to listen to. I almost hate commenting nitpicks because it's a great song and a great mix.

But, here here they are:
This first one is (I think) the most necessary. Pitch correct the last note of the chorus (Before the bridge) and the last note of the song up a couple of semi tones so it's on key (the "you" in "all of you"). I think correcting to G would do it.

The rest are spectral comments. I hope I've been able to tune my monitoring/room well enough to be hearing things more accurately now than before.

I agree with some of the guitar comments. They are maybe a little too biting and don't have enough pop. Also the snare could use a little more pop as well.

It's a little bit sharp/cooked in the highs. 14k ish and 7-9k ...

I think the mix is pretty wide (a lot of the mix seems to be in the side channels), so the vocals are getting a bit buried and it gives the guitars a kind of that fake '3D dolby sound' feel, if that makes sense. If you mono the mix, you can hear that washy echo/phase in the guitars more clearly. It's not terrible by any stretch, but it's there fyi.

These are nitpick for sure. great song. great mix effort.

I did some quick fiddling in Reaper and attached it. the main thing was a HP filter at 39hz, boost the low end at 61hz, then some notches and multiband compression in the highs to try to smooth the sharpness. I also boosted the side channel with a wide Q at around 190hz by 3.5db to try to focus in on the snare fundamentals while giving the guitars some pop (I maybe over did that one), and a 3.5db cut at 4.5khz in the sides to try to focus vocal clarity up the middle.

View attachment Climb the Wall adj 1.mp3
 
I'm going to give a listen in my car stereo shortly. I appreciate the master effort...unfortunately I uploaded an mp3. Next time I'll put the wav into dropbox. I'll examine all those issues and I'll comment soon, thanks a bunch man.
 
Before I listen and comment in more detail, I'll say that I have a HP filter, always, at 30hz. I bump the kick at 55hz (boulder's recommendation, previously, for that kick sample), and do a nice cut at 2.5khz for the harshness in guitars/vocals.
 
RedStone said:
I did some quick fiddling in Reaper and attached it.
Click to expand...

It has a nice roundness/fullness to it, and I really like that. It's something I'm lacking as I mix with headphones and use virtual instruments. But, this mix you did has weight and power in the low end. I like that a lot.

I think I'm hearing a little less clarity in the top end of the mix, particularly the vocals. I do struggle a bit with the upper end of the guitars, but I think that if I were to use this mix going forward, I would have to retrack the lead guitars (not the heavy rhythms) since those need to be more aggressive and bright. The cut you applied in the upper mids sounds good on the heavy guitars, but isn't doing the right stuff on the brighter guitars; they seem more dull here.

That said, I really appreciate the time and effort you gave this. That means a lot and I definitely learned some things about this tune/mix. I need to attempt to give my mixes more weight, although after hours of mixing, a 2-3db wide boost is very hard to hear accurately. I'll focus on the low end areas more.

Thanks RS.

edit: ah, forgot to mention...when I cranked this in my car stereo, it sounded very good. I could blast it without any discomfort or harshness from the guitars/vocals/cymbals. I do cuts across the OH's and master bus, but again, I don't think these headphones are doing me any favors. The super low and highs are difficult to judge. Thanks
 
Robus said:
I agree, nice full sound, a bit dark and lacking high end clarity.
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I guess I could've said just that and had a much shorter reply. :) Pretty much sums it up. I want to keep that low end weight and adjust the high end to add a bit more shine in the right spots. Thanks for weighing in, Ray.
 
thanks andrushkiwt - that clarity was a tough tradeoff. There's probably some work that could be done to coax out some more clarity without compromising the high end. Great that you can crank it and it sounds good all the way up.

Two things I've found really helpful in mixing was 1) calibrate my monitors and headphones and 2) do the bulk of the work in mono and not worry too much about the stereo image until later in the mixing process. Mixing in cans is definitely hard.

What kind of headphones are you using?
 
RedStone said:
thanks andrushkiwt - that clarity was a tough tradeoff. There's probably some work that could be done to coax out some more clarity without compromising the high end. Great that you can crank it and it sounds good all the way up.

Two things I've found really helpful in mixing was 1) calibrate my monitors and headphones and 2) do the bulk of the work in mono and not worry too much about the stereo image until later in the mixing process. Mixing in cans is definitely hard.

What kind of headphones are you using?
Click to expand...

Panning is probably the first thing I do. You should have things where you want them before you start mixing them. It'll effect the entire picture in the end if you move things around after you've EQ'd and sculpted things.

I'm using HD280's.
 
The HD 280s have some interesting frequency features, much like my DT990s.

Here is the average original frequency profile of the HD 280s. Check out that crazy 12db boost at 10khz! and then there's the massive drop off after 10k, and the big dip from 100-200hz, and the 6db boost at 80hz.
Sen HD280 original.png

Here's the correction profile. If you have reafir, I could try sending the preset over. Or you could approximate it with any old eq.
Reafir HD280 Inverted Response profile.png
 
I haven't looked at that in 2 years...thanks for bringing it up. I wonder if the big dip in 4-6k is the reason I don't hear the scratchy/harsh section of the guitars that are sometimes mentioned. I'm more likely to hear them in my car stereo. Hmmm... I should keep that picture on my desktop and reference it once in awhile. Appreciate all the help.
 
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