Carolina Sun with Sarah and Easlern

R

Robus

Well-known member
[Edit: New mix in link.]

Sarah and Easlern did the vocals and I put in some harmony. Those two are terrific.

Please comment on the mix. I'd like to do justice to Sarah's performance.

https://soundcloud.com/rami-40/carolina-sun-with-sarah_ray-taylor

Carolina Sun

Well the dawn comes round again
The sea wind calls
And there’s your face in silhouette on the wall
Painted in the colors of the rain
Those years fold back like cobwebs to a flame

1981
Carolina sun
Italian eyes that don’t ask why
In a world that’s just begun
You’ll always be as you were that day
With your salty lips, your brown eyes, your sway

Well hey, hey
Carolina sun
You ought to know how we’ve been getting on
Well hey, hey
It ain’t much, but the years they keep on slowly crawling on
And the tide winds out that Cooper, another song.

Times we find ourselves in need
Of a perfect song
With words that cut like a willow switch
A melody that calms
And your news, I still drag it like a chain
And no lie that will cure the pain
Of Carolina rain
Do I talk too much?
I’ll talk for two
Sister, me and you

Well hey, hey
Carolina sun
You ought to know how we’ve been getting on
Well hey, hey
It ain’t bad, but the years are slow in slowly crawling on
And the tide winds up that Ashley, another song.

Annie
If you could sing it.

(Words and Music Ray Taylor 2015)
 
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Ok, just had a listen real quick on my phone with earbuds on. So no real critical listen..keep that in mind.

Her voice is good

A few things immediately jumped out at me.
1); it almost sounds like her voice is just super imposed on a commercial backing track. It stands out, you can hear it well (which im sure is a goal to showcase the singer), But it doesn't "sit" in the mix.

2) when the male vocal first comes in it is more in the style of a duet, rather than a harmony. Also it is very dark and muffled sounding, and again doesn't fit into the mix.

3) When you have multiple vocals come in, the panning is a bit weird (to me).
As if a teacher put a bunch of kids into time out and made them all stand on different corners.
You have lots of stereo info going on with the vocals, and this makes the music "seem to collapse" into mono.


I watched the True story of the Traveling Wilburys today. Lots of studio footage.

That, in my opinion is how you do multiple vocals. Its on youtube and worth a watch. This is real pros at work.

:D

I hope my opinions dont discourage, but help.

Disclaimer: see my sig below :D
 
Yeah it might just really pop out on headphones cuz when I listen on my cheap over the ears the vocals seem to sit above the mix. Wouldn't be hard to blend them though I think. Backing track is good performance and well balanced, I think it's just the newer parts are popping out. I think it's 80% levels, if the lead and (my) backing part came down and maybe add some reverb to the backing it'd fit in better. I really like the new guitar parts. I thought your own backing track fit the song the best of all vocals actually, if you got the others to fit them I think the song would benefit. The back vox swell on "your news" was really nice.

Let me know if you want me to re record my part, it is pretty dark.
 
RFR said:
2) when the male vocal first comes in it is more in the style of a duet, rather than a harmony. Also it is very dark and muffled sounding, and again doesn't fit into the mix.

3) When you have multiple vocals come in, the panning is a bit weird (to me).
Click to expand...

+1
 
easlern said:
Yeah it might just really pop out on headphones cuz when I listen on my cheap over the ears the vocals seem to sit above the mix. Wouldn't be hard to blend them though I think. Backing track is good performance and well balanced, I think it's just the newer parts are popping out. I think it's 80% levels, if the lead and (my) backing part came down and maybe add some reverb to the backing it'd fit in better. I really like the new guitar parts. I thought your own backing track fit the song the best of all vocals actually, if you got the others to fit them I think the song would benefit. The back vox swell on "your news" was really nice.

Let me know if you want me to re record my part, it is pretty dark.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I thought there might be some proximity effect making your vocal sound darker, but I haven't done much EQ on that part yet, beyond the basic settings you suggested. I may be able to get you sounding a little brighter and thinner that way. If you would like to re-track and have time, cool. If you could double what you did before, that would be fantastic. Don't change it too much. I built my harmonies around the duet between you and Sarah. I'll send you the latest backing track, with and without my harmonies.

How do you like the levels on Sarah's vocal? I'll work on getting her to sit better in the mix, top priority. Her track is fairly dry because I wanted to counter my tendency to overdo the ambiance, but maybe I erred too much in the opposite direction? How does her EQ sound?

I'll tuck all the harmony vocals in tighter and take a look at the levels of the new guitar parts I recorded yesterday. How are the levels sounding on drums, bass, and electric piano?
 
All the instrumentation sounds great to me, I think the vocals are the only parts needing something. Bringing down the levels a bit, mostly on the lead would probably fix most of it. It might sound fine on monitors but cheaper systems/my headphones cause the vocals to pop right out, so the perceived level is higher I think even if they're not actually that loud.
 
I thought the backing tracks were excellent. Drums and bass sound especially nice. There is a clean guitar on the right that sounds very good too.

Female singer sounds nice. But she sounds like she's in a completely different spot than the other instruments. There is a whole bunch of mid-range and high end in the vocal. Then there is some sort of almost slap back delay or strange reverb. Sounds a bit un-natural.

Drums are a bit far back in the mix at times.
 
Thanks. There's actually no delay on the lead vocal, but you're the second person to mention it. So something going on there. I'm going to try EQing the reverb differently in the next mix. I haven't quite figured out how best to EQ the vocal itself.
 
I like where I think you want to take this song, but you're only about 50% there.

Like others have noted, lead vocals are on top of the mix and not in the same space. I gotta ask if she was recorded in a treated studio or an empty spare room. It is very boxy sounding and surging in the mid-range freqs. I hope you didn't add processing to her voice to put her in that box. If so, take off all time-domain processors and start over. Also put more lower freqs back in and give her a natural voice.

The drums are anemic. That's being nice. But for real, they are such an after thought in this song, you almost shouldn't have them because they detract from the mix. Once in a while you hear a hit out of them and it takes away from what you were focusing on before.

Even in ballads and slow soft songs, the drums should be a presence. They should set the mood and feel. Your keyboards and rhythm guits should be the supporting instruments, yet you've got them on top.

My mantra: Drums, Bass, Lead Vocals at the same level and over anything else. All other tracks are in a supporting role except for solo instruments, which can be at the same level as the vocals only when the vocals aren't singing.

I think all the instruments are played well and fill in the arrangement with good taste. Lots of nice little stuff going on to keep the listener engaged. Cool. :thumbs up:
 
Thanks, Chili. Good advice. The raw vocal track didn't sound boxy, so my mixing is the weak link. Easlern could say how she was recorded, but I think he did a good job. I'm going start over from scratch. As you say, the lead vocal need more body. Drums have been an issue on this particular song. If anyone is interested, you can find my original demo of this song with my vocals on my Soundcloud (the link in the OP will get you there). The drums were much more prominent in that version, but I wanted something more understated here. Guess I haven't found the balance yet.
 
There a new mix in the OP. I made several changes:

-- Lead vocal got new EQ and reverb. Hopefully sounding more natural and sitting better in the mix.
-- Re-balanced the harmony vocals.
-- Drums are a bit louder.
-- Guitars lower.
-- I gave Pino a chill pill and told him to re-track the bass. Actually, Pino was busy so I did it myself... ;) I played a bit farther behind the beat on this take. Tell me what you think.
 
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I think this is a bit better, I can hear the lead falling more into the track. The solo background (me) seems a little forward maybe. Maybe mixing the background voices together without panning, or muting my part on the chorus would help them fit in together a little better. The gang vocals you did I think they're they're a better pairing with the lead in chorus. All the vocals are really clear and audible as is but maybe it's okay to lose a little audibility by lowering them a bit so they sit in the mix closer.
 
Giving another listen

I like where you've got the bass, keyboards and guits. I think the drums still need to come way up. If in doing so, you find the drums are dominating the mix, then you need less drum hits; sparse, but present in the mix.

Still don't like the effects on the lead singer's voice. It puts her in a different room, with a different feel, and a different genre from the rest of the tracks. The short delay reverb isn't working. It sounds like she's recorded in a bad room or in a box. One trick you can try is to dial the reverb send all the down to zero. Then bring it up so you can just barely hear it in the full mix, then turn it back down slightly so you can just barely not hear it. Use a longer reverb with this trick.

Also dial out some of the mid-freqs on her voice. I'm guessing, but maybe between 1.5khz to 2.5khz.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks again Chili. I agree with all that. I do think the drums need to go sparser. Getting the right reverb and EQ on the lead vocal is proving quite the challenge, but I'll get there.
 
Robus said:
Thanks again Chili. I agree with all that. I do think the drums need to go sparser. Getting the right reverb and EQ on the lead vocal is proving quite the challenge, but I'll get there.
Click to expand...

Yeah man. Don't give up, it's a nice song. You'll get there. :)
 
problem as i see it is the vocals have a different "quality" (and room) to the backing track .. if you have a "sniffing eq" (one that learns an eq curve and can apply it) i think it would be easier to solo a few bars (without guitar n drums) sniff that section and apply the curve as a starting point for the vocals .. the lofi version you just made should sit a lot better
 
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