"Burning Time" New Recording

JohnnyAmato

JohnnyAmato

New member
Spent Thursday and Friday tracking this tune I wrote a few months ago. Lyrics are about 3/4 done, so yep, yet another tune added to the "need to do the vocals for" list. Think I'm up to 6 of them at this point :facepalm:

Anyhow, spent most of tonight mixing it, and I'm really struggling with the bass. It just keeps poking out it seems. I'm already compressing it pretty hard, 10:1 with about 10db of GR. It's a 2006 USA P-Bass, and the A string always seems to poke through more than the low E string for some reason.

There's also a soft 2:1 compression before a limiter on the master bus.

And since there's been all this talk about tone going on lately, I also wanted to see what anyone thought of the rhythm tones here. I recently read some stuff on Green Day and Billie Jo sometimes layers 3 or four distorted guitars for his rhythms, so I wanted to try it. I also used some new tones from my board that I've never used before in a recording. (Digitech GNX3000)

Here's the layout:
(levels are the same on all four rhythm tracks)

Hard Left - DigiCrunch w/ Vintage 4/12s
40% left - Marshall JCM 900 w/ Vintage 4/12s
Hard Right - DigiCrunch w/ British 4/12s
40% Right - Marshall 900 w/ Vintage 4/12s and an 800 w/ British 4/12s warped together 70/30

DigiCrunch is just Digitech's own exclusive crunch sound/head.

All four rhythms were played with my 2003 G&L Strat with a Screamin' Demon mini humbucker and maple fingerboard, it's a really bright and punchy guitar. The few melodies/fills/leads were played with a 2001 USA Strat with EMGs. (the David Gilmore artist series set-up)
Both killer guitars, but very different.

Burning Time (Demo) | Johnny Amato
 
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Just listened to it myself for the first time outside of the studio, on my upstairs laptop with headphones. Seems the bass isn't as bad as I originally thought, maybe.

Need to lay off the crashes from 2:18 to 2:28 and go back to the open hats.

Might be a little too much rumble in that floor tom.

Back to work on it tomorrow, er, later today. Anything else?
 
I can hear why you went with a Green Day reference here. Chord structure and rhythm is close to earlier Green Day, for sure. Though, there a lot of things I'd change about the drum patterns, if I may say so. That section from 1:29-1:32 needs a snare hit before every chord change, followed directly by a crash. That's pretty standard for a punk rhythm like that. Going straight through the beat 1-2-3-4 isn't taking advantage of the abrupt chord changes, and the beat I'm talking about is something Green Day does a ton of. Honestly, those drum beats were the first thing that came to mind when listening to this.

Oh crap, alright, you did it during 1:36-1:38. Got it. Maybe when I hear the vocals it'll be easier to tell if it isn't necessary in those other spots. Glad you did it there, because I wasn't sure how to explain it verbally. 1:46 could use a fast snare/tom roll. 2:01 could use a quick one too. And I don't mean only there, but in those sections.

Mixwise, it's sounding real good. I wouldn't get hung up on the bass at all. 10:1 and 10db GR is pretty close to where I end up with it too. And a slight camel hump EQ, usually.
 
andrushkiwt said:
I can hear why you went with a Green Day reference here. Chord structure and rhythm is close to earlier Green Day, for sure. Though, there a lot of things I'd change about the drum patterns, if I may say so. That section from 1:29-1:32 needs a snare hit before every chord change, followed directly by a crash. That's pretty standard for a punk rhythm like that. Going straight through the beat 1-2-3-4 isn't taking advantage of the abrupt chord changes, and the beat I'm talking about is something Green Day does a ton of. Honestly, those drum beats were the first thing that came to mind when listening to this.

Oh crap, alright, you did it during 1:36-1:38. Got it. Maybe when I hear the vocals it'll be easier to tell if it isn't necessary in those other spots. Glad you did it there, because I wasn't sure how to explain it verbally. 1:46 could use a fast snare/tom roll. 2:01 could use a quick one too. And I don't mean only there, but in those sections.

Mixwise, it's sounding real good. I wouldn't get hung up on the bass at all. 10:1 and 10db GR is pretty close to where I end up with it too. And a slight camel hump EQ, usually.
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Yep, I know the exact hits you're referring to. I thought long and hard about it, and decided not to do it every time. Did it for the second half of all the choruses, and all through the intro. Might throw another random one or two once the vocals are in. I'll look at those other two sections you mentioned for possible snare/tom rolls. I actually was a little concerned that there really wasn't any.

Yea with the bass I started at 4:1 and it just wasn't cuttin' it. Slowly worked my way up, tweaking attack and release, and ended up at 10:1 before I was satisfied. I have a slight camel hump around 2k I think, and a very slight roll-off around 400hz.

Thanks a bunch for the listen. I'm going to work a little on this later today and I'll put up the new version tonight.
 
I'm not hearing the bass problem at all. In fact, might want to back off on the compressor a little. Not hearing what you are means one thing: your room. Could be a peak right at the A note. 220hz or 440hz. If you have a small room (10x10, like me) then I'd say it's 440hz.

Look forward to hearing the song completed.
 
Very tight, great playing, lots of energy as always. Can't wait to hear it with vocals. I agree with Chili. The bass is not misbehaving in any way that I can tell. It's tucked right underneath the guitars, as if it where an extension of the guitars. It stands out clearly enough during the fills, and otherwise does its job of filling out the low end. That's what you want in a lot of heavier genres, and given that you have four or five rhythm guitars layered in, there's not a lot of room in your arrangement for the bass to do much more.
 
Thanks for the listen guys.

The room probably is part of the problem. I always wondered if putting a thick rug on the wall behind the speakers would help some. Those are cement walls. The basement isn't huge, looks like it's about 16x18ish) but behind me, out of the picture, is the whole band set-up for rehearsals- drums, amps, keys, PA. My reference speakers (M-Audio BX8s) are pretty nice, but I was told they're known for being a little strong in the low-mids. That probably doesn't help either.
Room.jpg
 
Yeah, you've got to get some treatment behind those speakers. The carpet will help, but not in the bass range. You need bass traps. The good thing is, they can be done fairly cheap if you are a DIYer. Go search in the Studio build section of this site for ideas. (you might have to dig a bit to find the threads.)

As a matter of fact, here's a thread I started. Somewhere in there I show how I made my bass traps.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...ic-treatment/studio-garage-279814/?highlight=
 
Wow tight performances. Guitar tones are sweet. Bass seems to slot in where it should on headphones. No complaints here
 
Thanks Bulls. Going to do a little tweaking on the drums tonight, but going to leave the actual mix alone for now until I put the vocals down.
 
Johnny -- what is that intro, chord-wise? Such weird sounding chords. And how do you play them that fast in time?

On to the recording. To me it sounds perfectly find as is.

Nits: The chugging guitar could use some weight removed from it (no clue, but my guess is 400hz to 800hz). It's a little bit overly "percussive" when combined with the bass. I'm sure the percussive vibe is why you palm mute it, but it sounds just a little over the top. With the drums, I'd program in a little more variation (I get lazy with this, too, so I get it). The cymbal hits could use more variation in volume and the patterns. Overall, though, that's a good job. And I like that you're so modest. I know that has nothing to do with the mix, but comes across and it's refreshing.
 
Nola said:
Johnny -- what is that intro, chord-wise? Such weird sounding chords. And how do you play them that fast in time?
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Thanks for the listen, Nola.

Are you referring to the quick scale at the beginning? It's just an Emajor/mixolydian hybrid scale, all 4 rhythm guitars are playing it, plus the one matching lead on top, and the bass, exact same scale. So no chords there.

Then it just goes right into the progression, which is A-C#-G-D, just 3-string power chords. All down strokes. Not exactly sure which part you're referring to.

I plan on working the drums a little tonight. I'm going to leave the guitar mix as-is for now, when I do the vocals I'll see how it all fits in the spectrum.
 
New mix here and in the OP. Mainly worked on more variations in the drums, and added more fills. Definitely gives the song as a whole more energy, I think. So thanks Taras and Nola for the suggestions. The new fills/variations aren't set in stone until I finally do the vocals, but I think I'm headed down the right path. Didn't want to over-do it, but it definitely has a better feel I think.

Nola, I nudged down 400hz .5db on the rhythm guitar bus, to maybe smooth it out a hair. It's subtle but I can tell. Tried 1 and 1.5db dip but didn't like it, so just stuck with .5. Didn't really like dipping 500-800 hz, but I did mess with it. Again, just decided on the tiny dip at 400. Did however put a small 3:1 compression on the rhythm guitar bus as well, with a small 3-4db GR to try to tighten and gell all four of the rhythm tracks. Honestly, I can't even tell the difference, but left it on anyway.

Also threw a soft 4:1 compression on the OHs. They also didn't really sound any different, maybe a little tighter, but it didn't sound bad so I kept it on. I also lowered the reverb just a tad on the snare.

Time to give this tune a rest until it's vocal time.

Burning Time (Demo) | Johnny Amato
 
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Very nice work all around. Guitars sound great, and there's an awesome energy to the whole tune. Interesting chord change with that bVII chord sandwiched between the iii and the IV like that.

You're not tuned to A440 are you? Everything sounds in tune on the track, but it sounds a good bit sharp compared to A440. Just curious if there's any specific reason for this?

Cool stuff!
 
Thanks a bunch for the listen Beagle!

Yea for some reason I struggled a little with the fine-tuning on this track, and I think it ended up being just a tiny hair sharp.

What I usually do with every recording I make is lay a simple keyboard track first, to help keep me in tune as I track the main instruments. Sometimes I keep it, sometimes I don't, but it's main initial purpose is to keep the song as perfectly in tune as possible. For some crazy reason, after I tracked the bass and all four rhythm guitars, I started to notice that it might have been just a TAD off. Wasn't sure where though. I tracked the bass first (after the drums and keys) and thought it was fine, I think the guitars might be a tad sharp somewhere, like maybe the G string, because the only time it sounded a tad off was when I was playing the D power chord. But checking the guitar with my tuner it was right on. So I was confused.

I ended up ditching the keyboard track, and it sounded way better. But I was a little worried it might be a tad off as a whole. I strongly wondered if anyone would notice, and you're the first to mention it after many chimed in, so kudos to your ear. Do you have perfect pitch? I've always had good pitch but it's certainly not perfect.

Instead of breaking down where the issue was and re-tracking it, I decided just to keep it as is. I think it actually adds a cool, raw, 70's punk kind of vibe to the tune, but once the vocals are done I'll probably experiment and bring the whole thing down just a few cents.
 
JohnnyAmato said:
Thanks a bunch for the listen Beagle!

Yea for some reason I struggled a little with the fine-tuning on this track, and I think it ended up being just a tiny hair sharp.

What I usually do with every recording I make is lay a simple keyboard track first, to help keep me in tune as I track the main instruments. Sometimes I keep it, sometimes I don't, but it's main initial purpose is to keep the song as perfectly in tune as possible. For some crazy reason, after I tracked the bass and all four rhythm guitars, I started to notice that it might have been just a TAD off. Wasn't sure where though. I tracked the bass first (after the drums and keys) and thought it was fine, I think the guitars might be a tad sharp somewhere, like maybe the G string, because the only time it sounded a tad off was when I was playing the D power chord. But checking the guitar with my tuner it was right on. So I was confused.

I ended up ditching the keyboard track, and it sounded way better. But I was a little worried it might be a tad off as a whole. I strongly wondered if anyone would notice, and you're the first to mention it after many chimed in, so kudos to your ear. Do you have perfect pitch? I've always had good pitch but it's certainly not perfect.

Instead of breaking down where the issue was and re-tracking it, I decided just to keep it as is. I think it actually adds a cool, raw, 70's punk kind of vibe to the tune, but once the vocals are done I'll probably experiment and bring the whole thing down just a few cents.
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Oh wow, interesting story. :)

No, I don't have perfect pitch. I was listening to the song and, not having noticed the previous post where you had spelled out the chords for Nola, I was thinking, "Oh, that's an interesting chord there ... the bVII." But then I noticed that the melody guitar was playing an E over it, which would be the 6th of that chord --- slightly unconventional --- which made me say ... "I'm pretty sure it's a bVII, but let me double-check before I write that." So I picked up my guitar to check it and noticed that I wasn't sounding quite in tune with your track. After double-checking my guitar with my tuner, I realized that your track must be a tad sharp. :)
 
Wow, sounds quite good as all of the tracks I have listened to from you do. Playing is always on point.

Only thing I hear off is some type of disconnect from the drums to the guitars. It just doesn't have that full separation of the drums that drives the tune. Kick drum is the first to tilt my ear as not being the right sample, but I wonder if it could be a room (reverb) thing there.

On second listen I think it is perfect. Hmmm... I would pull my hair out finding anything wrong with this. Honestly I think I should just STFU and say props to you! :)
 
Yeah, honestly the bass could come way up in my opinion. It is pretty hidden down there. Very tight rhythm and timing overall on this. Nice playing.
 
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