That Bitch

FoulPhil

FoulPhil

Well-known member
So, here's a new song I just recorded the vocals for today. I did a real quick lead guitar for it as well. I've needed to change the strings for a while. So, I'll for sure go record the leads again and also re-work them a bit. I think it came out Ok. I use the same mix settings as on the other song I was working on. Hope you like it... LOL

EDIT: By the way, I'm pretty much stuck working on this stuff by myself. I don't have access to back ground singers or other types of instrumentation. I wish I could get some folk stringed instruments going as well, but can't really afford to make investments into instruments I don't even know how to play. If anyone wants to throw down on something. Some background vocals, country rocked out guitars, instruments or what ever. Go for it :D


JC Style :p

 
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I like the song and the vocals. You've definitely got that outlaw voice, reminds me a bit of Charlie Daniels. The mix seemed overly dense in the midrange. Made it harder to hear the lead vocal and lyrics. The acoustic guitar was maybe a bit too dominant. I liked hearing the details of your playing, but you might achieve the same effect without making it quite so loud in the mix if you carved out some space, same for the voice. A little bit of boominess on the low end. Very promising! I like the genre you are working in.
 
Charlie Daniels came to mind to me also. LOVE the lyrics. I'm on buds so I won't insult commenting on shit impossible to hear. I will check it out when I'm in my saddle behind the console later.
 
Robus said:
I like the song and the vocals. You've definitely got that outlaw voice, reminds me a bit of Charlie Daniels. The mix seemed overly dense in the midrange. Made it harder to hear the lead vocal and lyrics. The acoustic guitar was maybe a bit too dominant. I liked hearing the details of your playing, but you might achieve the same effect without making it quite so loud in the mix if you carved out some space, same for the voice. A little bit of boominess on the low end. Very promising! I like the genre you are working in.
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Thanks it's just a fun yet frustrating hobby. And also trying to make some decent beer drinking songs lol. I'm not really sure carve out some space, but I guess I'll experiment with it a little. Thanks for listening and the compliments :D

K-dub said:
Charlie Daniels came to mind to me also. LOVE the lyrics. I'm on buds so I won't insult commenting on shit impossible to hear. I will check it out when I'm in my saddle behind the console later.
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Thank you. It's not insulting lol. I don't mind when people give advice. I only hate not knowing how to do some of the things they say I should do LOL.
 
I'm still a beginning when it comes to mixing, so take this with a grain of salt. I think the idea would be to identify the frequencies that give the vocals and guitar their character, then reduce those same frequencies in other instruments. To a point, of course. It's what I've been trying to do, with mixed results. Another is high-pass pretty much everything that isn't a bass instrument. Helps clean up crud at the bottom.
 
Robus said:
I'm still a beginning when it comes to mixing, so take this with a grain of salt. I think the idea would be to identify the frequencies that give the vocals and guitar their character, then reduce those same frequencies in other instruments. To a point, of course. It's what I've been trying to do, with mixed results. Another is high-pass pretty much everything that isn't a bass instrument. Helps clean up crud at the bottom.
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Yeah I hear you. I think I'm addressing some of the issues you're talking about, but I'm doing it way differently. I'm not sure which frequencies are a compliment to the interments lol. So, I'm looking for ones that make it sound harsh. How I'm finding them is by using a multi band EQ. Soloing the individual tracks and boost each frequency (one at a time) until I find something that just goes completely wacky. Only problem is I have to turn it up pretty loud to find the right spots and it's a bad strain on my ears LOL. But I cut a bunch more junk out and I think it's clearer. Not sure if it's better. I'm trying to be very gentle about it. I guess I'll post another mix tomorrow and see what people say.
 
Looking forward to hearing it. I wonder if you would get any bites by posting on the Mix This forum? Might be cool to hear what other people would do with it.
 
Man, you have really got a great voice for this kind of stuff. Were you not doing metal style music last year? If so nice change up I think you found your calling. I think its composed very well, mix yeah, a little muddy in the middle. Just fine tune it a little and you will have a nice one for your collection. Great job
 
Bruthish said:
Man, you have really got a great voice for this kind of stuff. Were you not doing metal style music last year? If so nice change up I think you found your calling. I think its composed very well, mix yeah, a little muddy in the middle. Just fine tune it a little and you will have a nice one for your collection. Great job
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Hey thanks, that's a real compliment. I was considering giving up because it's so damn frustrating trying to get things just right, but it's the kind compliments you guys give me that help me to keep trying. I keep taking my time with it instead of trying to get it all done at once and rush things. I was working on metal several times and I still plan on doing more metal in the future. After I get the stuff I'm working on now out of my system I'll move on to some other kind of music. I notice that with each project my stuff gets a little better. So, maybe in a few more years I'll have some really GREAT sounding schit LOL.

Anyways, here's a new mix I made last night. I don't think the changes I made are dramatic, but hopefully it's toned down some of the issues we've been discussing. I haven't even been able to get to correcting the drums panning or anything like that yet, but I'll eventually get there. I'll probably work on a new song again today. I want to keep pushing forward as much as I can without burning out...

 
FoulPhil said:
Yeah I hear you. I think I'm addressing some of the issues you're talking about, but I'm doing it way differently. I'm not sure which frequencies are a compliment to the interments lol. So, I'm looking for ones that make it sound harsh. How I'm finding them is by using a multi band EQ. Soloing the individual tracks and boost each frequency (one at a time) until I find something that just goes completely wacky. Only problem is I have to turn it up pretty loud to find the right spots and it's a bad strain on my ears LOL. But I cut a bunch more junk out and I think it's clearer. Not sure if it's better. I'm trying to be very gentle about it. I guess I'll post another mix tomorrow and see what people say.
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Try this, I think it is a pretty good guide to get you in the ball park.

frequencyspectrum.jpg
 
FoulPhil said:
Hey thanks, that's a real compliment. I was considering giving up because it's so damn frustrating trying to get things just right, but it's the kind compliments you guys give me that help me to keep trying. I keep taking my time with it instead of trying to get it all done at once and rush things. I was working on metal several times and I still plan on doing more metal in the future. After I get the stuff I'm working on now out of my system I'll move on to some other kind of music. I notice that with each project my stuff gets a little better. So, maybe in a few more years I'll have some really GREAT sounding schit LOL.
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Hey Man, don't ever give up...you have a musical talent that not everyone can say they have. Recording/mixing is a totally separate talent but just like playing an instrument, you have to learn, research, and practice doing. I gave up my studio 15-16 years ago because I was burned out and frustrated. Just last year finally got back into it and Already my mixes are 100X better than the stuff I was doing back then. I can't imagine what my mixes might sound like today if I kept with it during those empty years!

You can definitely write/compose songs that sound good...your mixes are not far off at all. Just little nudges here and there. Keep at it man...your doing good
 
Bruthish said:
Hey Man, don't ever give up...you have a musical talent that not everyone can say they have. Recording/mixing is a totally separate talent but just like playing an instrument, you have to learn, research, and practice doing. I gave up my studio 15-16 years ago because I was burned out and frustrated. Just last year finally got back into it and Already my mixes are 100X better than the stuff I was doing back then. I can't imagine what my mixes might sound like today if I kept with it during those empty years!

You can definitely write/compose songs that sound good...your mixes are not far off at all. Just little nudges here and there. Keep at it man...your doing good
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I hear that. Thanks a lot for the support guys :D

I did a quick mix using that frequency chart DM60 posted. I'm pretty sure you can hear the differences between the tracks. And I also made the panning of the drums less wide. I think you can hear a clear difference, but not sure it's any better. What you guys think?

 
I tend to listen to the latest mixes Phil -- so I went to your latest and gave it a spin. I'm now in the studio futzing around.

The key to panning is how many notes you're trying to fill a limited space with. When you pan two busy parts to the same area that are playing a lot of notes standing "next" to each other, you're going to get both trashing sonic clarity. By example, in your latest mix, trying to hear the lead vocal with the guitar playing "over the top" kills the ability to focus on either ... hence the brain turns it to sonic mush.

Frequency balance and panning are interwoven and tricky. I'd clear the middle for your lead vocal, but take the conflicting fill work and move it way to the right and out of the way. Then ... because you've now got higher frequency energy to the right ... try to balance that with another element in similar range off left a bit.

A clear example of this technique is on the tune I just posted, "Soon you'll be leaving". When you listen, notice how the acoustic guitar is panned left, but the keyboard ... playing counterpoint in similar frequency range stands completely across the sonic stage?

I've got the electrics more center (mixed as more of a background "wash"), but I'm not playing them when the vocal is there ... so there's little competition for both the frequency and the sonic middle between the notes occurring center.

That's something I would focus on as you spin your next mix.

K-
 
The accent guitar to me could be a little lower and the vocals come up a tad, but over all it sounded cleaner.

I will let other provide better guidance, but what I have tried to do is, look at each track and using that guide, EQ at the track level and saving the master EQ for just the final mix EQ.

Example, rather than cut on the Master EQ, if I am using acoustics, there is usually a build up down on the lower regions, especially if there are multiple acoustics. So I start cutting there to remove build up (keep in mind, all relative to the mix). I have one where I roll off all acoustics below 300, then push the bass to fill that hole. Same with vocals, roll of below 1K to try and keep the clutter out at the tracks. Then use EQ on the master to sort out the tweaks.

I started using a frequency analyzer on the master as my guide. Took a reference song to see what various professional mixed songs look like (once again as a guide) to give me an idea of what I was looking for while trying to get me hear oriented. I am not at the professional level and still learning, but this seems to be getting my mixes going in a better direction.
 
K-dub said:
I tend to listen to the latest mixes Phil -- so I went to your latest and gave it a spin. I'm now in the studio futzing around.

The key to panning is how many notes you're trying to fill a limited space with. When you pan two busy parts to the same area that are playing a lot of notes standing "next" to each other, you're going to get both trashing sonic clarity. By example, in your latest mix, trying to hear the lead vocal with the guitar playing "over the top" kills the ability to focus on either ... hence the brain turns it to sonic mush.

Frequency balance and panning are interwoven and tricky. I'd clear the middle for your lead vocal, but take the conflicting fill work and move it way to the right and out of the way. Then ... because you've now got higher frequency energy to the right ... try to balance that with another element in similar range off left a bit.

A clear example of this technique is on the tune I just posted, "Soon you'll be leaving". When you listen, notice how the acoustic guitar is panned left, but the keyboard ... playing counterpoint in similar frequency range stands completely across the sonic stage?

I've got the electrics more center (mixed as more of a background "wash"), but I'm not playing them when the vocal is there ... so there's little competition for both the frequency and the sonic middle between the notes occurring center.

That's something I would focus on as you spin your next mix.

K-
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Yeah I understand. The track came out real nice as well. I think I need to listen to some songs of a similar genre and see how they do it as well. The lead guitar that is down the middle was only supposed to be played in between the vocals. Sort of to fill in the empty space, but it didn't really work out so well. I missed the timing. I'm just leaving it in there for now. I still need to change strings and record it again. Right now I'm just working with what I have so that as I make changes and add things or take things away I'll have a better idea of what I should be doing lol...
 
DM60 said:
The accent guitar to me could be a little lower and the vocals come up a tad, but over all it sounded cleaner.

I will let other provide better guidance, but what I have tried to do is, look at each track and using that guide, EQ at the track level and saving the master EQ for just the final mix EQ.

Example, rather than cut on the Master EQ, if I am using acoustics, there is usually a build up down on the lower regions, especially if there are multiple acoustics. So I start cutting there to remove build up (keep in mind, all relative to the mix). I have one where I roll off all acoustics below 300, then push the bass to fill that hole. Same with vocals, roll of below 1K to try and keep the clutter out at the tracks. Then use EQ on the master to sort out the tweaks.

I started using a frequency analyzer on the master as my guide. Took a reference song to see what various professional mixed songs look like (once again as a guide) to give me an idea of what I was looking for while trying to get me hear oriented. I am not at the professional level and still learning, but this seems to be getting my mixes going in a better direction.
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I don't do anything to the master channel. I EQ each track. I'm not really sure how to use a frequency analyzer. I haven't met anyone who could explain how they work and what I should be looking for lol.
 
That is why I used a reference track, to get an idea of what professional mixes sound and look like. Frequency analyzer is just a visual tool to assist.
 
Each mix is getting better. The latest one had more clarity in the midrange. I think you could still do more carving out to make space for your vocal. The level of the vocal isn't too low, IMO. It just needs a little more room to be heard clearly. I liked the suggestion above to pan the acoustic guitar fills out to one side. I'm learning that the farther I pan a part to one side, the less loud it needs to be in the mix while still being heard. I've got a song up on page 1 or 2 of the MP3 Clinic called Jenny Jones (new mix with a new vocal take coming soon). There's an electric guitar fill on the refrain that I quite like. It's panned to the left and not very loud, but I think cuts through pretty well.

Here's an idea. Begin by turning down all your faders except the vocal. Then start adding back the other instruments one at a time, listening carefully for how each one affects the lead vocal. As soon as you hear something starting to mask the vocal, or make your lyrics less intelligible, then you know you have a conflict. Try finessing the levels, EQ, panning, and compression on that part until it no longer conflicts. When you've added back all the instruments and the vocal still sounds clear and strong, you're done.

Don't give up. It's supposed to be frustrating. That's why we call it art!
 
Robus said:
Each mix is getting better. The latest one had more clarity in the midrange. I think you could still do more carving out to make space for your vocal. The level of the vocal isn't too low, IMO. It just needs a little more room to be heard clearly. I liked the suggestion above to pan the acoustic guitar fills out to one side. I'm learning that the farther I pan a part to one side, the less loud it needs to be in the mix while still being heard. I've got a song up on page 1 or 2 of the MP3 Clinic called Jenny Jones (new mix with a new vocal take coming soon). There's an electric guitar fill on the refrain that I quite like. It's panned to the left and not very loud, but I think cuts through pretty well.

Here's an idea. Begin by turning down all your faders except the vocal. Then start adding back the other instruments one at a time, listening carefully for how each one affects the lead vocal. As soon as you hear something starting to mask the vocal, or make your lyrics less intelligible, then you know you have a conflict. Try finessing the levels, EQ, panning, and compression on that part until it no longer conflicts. When you've added back all the instruments and the vocal still sounds clear and strong, you're done.

Don't give up. It's supposed to be frustrating. That's why we call it art!
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Yeah thanks for the input. I'm thinking about writing a whole new guitar part for the left or right side. Getting what I hear in my head to come out sounding right isn't always possible LOL. I think it'll sound epic as hell to have a some kind of chugging type single note rhythm that goes in and out of the guitar solos while also following the strummed rhythm. Hard to explain, but I'll experiment lol.

Sort of like this Johnny Cash song that has the guitar and snare panned left and right.

 
LOL. Here it is. Johnny Cash style... I'm sure the guitar doesn't sound GREAT or anything, but it's just an idea hahahahah. I think it's fckin cool in a funny way, but it might change the vibe in the wrong way lol...

 
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