To Be Wise I Will Listen To Wise Men, I NEED SOME ADVICE FOR BASIC MIXING.

[Shorn Hertz]

HELLO I'M HERTZ.

I'm from Kingston Jamaica and want to be a future engineer. I have been around music for a few years and now I have my own home setup. please read and give advice, if your intention is to bash my setup don't say nothing. Your answer must relate to the current equipment I own. Thank you.

Setup:

I have a pair of M-Audio AV30 studio monitors
Focusrite 2i2 usb interface
and a Rode NT1-A Mircrophone.

this is a simple setup connected to my windows PC, with DAWS of choice cubase and studio1.

The type of music done in Jamaica is very similar to rap/r&b so that could be used as a reference. I am not looking for state of the art quality but this should be fairly decent I suppose.

Workflow:

currently I Import a mixed down instrumental on a stereo track and try to layer vocals over it. I eq .. compress... de-ess then add reverb and delay... mostly using presets. Mic input peaks at -12 db and I try to Balance everything at -12 db...

My finish product is very low when compared to other tracks, the vocals are thin and lost.. and in a few words, the track is a failure. I would love some advice on how to go about this.... thank you in advance for your replies.

i did a little song to give you an idea

 

[Rafael Morgan]

Hey man,

I'm a total noob, but I'll give you my two cents.

The instrumental track sounds really disconnected to your vocal track...I guess this is not unusual when you want to fit a vocal into an already mixed down track.

Anyway, the backing track is really lacking some bass, in my opinion. Maybe you should do some "smile" EQ on it, you know, scoop the middle to make the vocals fit better and increase the low and high end.

Also, it's important to notice that, while the backing track sounds very compressed, the vocal isn't. If you want these vocals to blend in, you'll have to compress more to reduce the vocal dynamics to a similar level as the track's.

I also think you used too much reverb to try to make things glue. Try addressing the above cited issues first, then add reverb very lightly to the final mix...Just if needed.

After doing all that, adding a little compression, 3/4db + or -, with moderate attack and fast release to your mix bus will help you to glue things together and pump them up a little.

And, after all that, add a Limiter/Loudness maximizer to bring the volume up to "commercial" levels, but use it wisely.

Musically, if you allow me to give my opinion, I think you have a nice vocal tone, a truly nice accent and a very well developed rhythmic sense. However, watch out for your tuning, because you go out of tune quite a few times. A lot of people use some sort of vocal tuning software to fix these little accidents nowadays. Using it wisely, it's barely noticeable but really improves the general "pro" feeling of the mix.

Anyway, like I said, I'm just a noob. You probably should wait until you get a few more opinions from more experienced members.

Cheers and good luck.

Raf.

 

[Shorn Hertz]

Thanks raf. appreciate the reply and the pointers. I will address each individually and see if it makes a difference, one question tho. do you think its possible to achieve a decent mix with the setup i have? not blaming the equipment just don't want to be fighting an already lost battle.

Ps thanks for the compliment.

 

[Rafael Morgan]

Thanks raf. appreciate the reply and the pointers. I will address each individually and see if it makes a difference, one question tho. do you think its possible to achieve a decent mix with the setup i have? not blaming the equipment just don't want to be fighting an already lost battle.

Ps thanks for the compliment.

Hi again brother,

No, I don't believe it is...I KNOW it is.

Nowadays, one of my favorite albums, both musically and sonically speaking, was recorded on an old Mac, running an old version of Pro Tools LE, connected to an old m-audio's two channels interface...and every track was recorded through a single SM57 mic, in a hunting cabin without any proper acoustic treatment.

So, hell yeah...It's possible. People overestimate gear. If you have a decently clean way to put your ideas into your computer, know your theory and have a nice pair of ears...Then you're ready to go.

By the way, this is the album I'm talking about, in case you're interested:

Bon Iver | For Emma, Forever Ago - YouTube

Cheers,

Raf.

 

[gecko zzed]

I'd go along with pretty much all that Rafael said.

However, I actually think the level of reverb that you have is right. It matches pretty well the reverb of the backing track. I think that once you get the comparative levels of vocal and backing track sorted, they will blend well with that reverb. It sounds a bit more prominent now because the vocals are so up front.

You've done some double tracking of the vocals, and there is a bit of pitchiness there. It doesn't worry me too much, but you might like to revisit that.

 

[Shorn Hertz]

I'd go along with pretty much all that Rafael said.

However, I actually think the level of reverb that you have is right. It matches pretty well the reverb of the backing track. I think that once you get the comparative levels of vocal and backing track sorted, they will blend well with that reverb. It sounds a bit more prominent now because the vocals are so up front.

You've done some double tracking of the vocals, and there is a bit of pitchiness there. It doesn't worry me too much, but you might like to revisit that.

i was having a bit of trouble getting warmth without double tracking... do you have any tips or technique that can help me achieve this in a single take?

 

[MrWrenchey]

He's not saying to take away the double tracking, just retrack it so it's not as pitchy. Double tracking (especially in the genres mentioned) is a pretty popular technique, and has a sound of its own, so if you're liking how it sounds double tracked, I say just keep with that!

 

[Shorn Hertz]

As raf pointed out i tried using a limiter on the master bus, just to see if i could get a fair amount of volume but its still on the low end... is okay to balance and mix at -12DB ? because i am finding it very hard to bring the levels back.
I know the track is not mastered but its volume is way below par.... if I'm overlooking something or there is a specific technique please help.

Finish product peaks at around -3db (after adding limiter) but still significantly low compared to every other track i listen.

 

[RAMI]

As raf pointed out i tried using a limiter on the master bus, just to see if i could get a fair amount of volume but its still on the low end... is okay to balance and mix at -12DB ? because i am finding it very hard to bring the levels back.
I know the track is not mastered but its volume is way below par.... if I'm overlooking something or there is a specific technique please help.

That's totally normal for 99% of us. You'll just have to play with your limiter settings to get it up there, but the fact that your un-finished track is way lower than a commercial release happens to pretty much everyone that actually records.

 

[MrWrenchey]

If it peaks at around -3dBFS, that's probably why it sounds quieter.

Pull in a commercial recording. Sometimes it looks like those things are slammed to -0.1dBFS and only move down when the vocalist stops singing for a bit.

 

[RAMI]

If it peaks at around -3dBFS, that's probably why it sounds quieter.

Pull in a commercial recording. Sometimes it looks like those things are slammed to -0.1dBFS and only move down when the vocalist stops singing for a bit.

Exactly. Most commercial rock/pop/reggae/dance, etc....is peaking around -.3 or so, and averaging anywhere from -12db to -14db. Some really squashed metal sometimes averages up in the -9 or -10, but that's just kooky talk.

 

[Shorn Hertz]

So I made a Short Freestyle track just to put all points that were made into practice. In my fair opinion the vocal is thin, the song seems over compressed and the levels, even when peaking just below zero don't seem too right.

Have a listen and continue to provide constructive criticism you guys have helped ALOT so far.

 

[Rafael Morgan]

So I made a Short Freestyle track just to put all points that were made into practice. In my fair opinion the vocal is thin, the song seems over compressed and the levels, even when peaking just below zero don't seem too right.

Have a listen and continue to provide constructive criticism you guys have helped ALOT so far.

Hey man,

Brother, in my opinion, this one sounds so much better than the other.

You're totally on the right track.

Maybe you could add some of EQ somewhere in the low-mids of the voice track, to give it a little bit more substance.

The bass is lacking a little bit of pumping for my taste, but you're certainly getting there, at least to my ears.

Well done.

Raf.

 

[XploZiveToyz]

HELLO I'M HERTZ.

I'm from Kingston Jamaica and want to be a future engineer. I have been around music for a few years and now I have my own home setup. please read and give advice, if your intention is to bash my setup don't say nothing. Your answer must relate to the current equipment I own. Thank you.

Setup:

I have a pair of M-Audio AV30 studio monitors
Focusrite 2i2 usb interface
and a Rode NT1-A Mircrophone.

this is a simple setup connected to my windows PC, with DAWS of choice cubase and studio1.

The type of music done in Jamaica is very similar to rap/r&b so that could be used as a reference. I am not looking for state of the art quality but this should be fairly decent I suppose.

Workflow:

currently I Import a mixed down instrumental on a stereo track and try to layer vocals over it. I eq .. compress... de-ess then add reverb and delay... mostly using presets. Mic input peaks at -12 db and I try to Balance everything at -12 db...

My finish product is very low when compared to other tracks, the vocals are thin and lost.. and in a few words, the track is a failure. I would love some advice on how to go about this.... thank you in advance for your replies.

i did a little song to give you an idea

Hey bro, I don't know why you would need to worry about anyone here bashing your set-up. We're here to help you improve, not to bash your set-up! Happy recording!

 

[Shorn Hertz]

Hey man,

Brother, in my opinion, this one sounds so much better than the other.

You're totally on the right track.

Maybe you could add some of EQ somewhere in the low-mids of the voice track, to give it a little bit more substance.

The bass is lacking a little bit of pumping for my taste, but you're certainly getting there, at least to my ears.

Well done.

Raf.

I tried pumping up the low end but then the bass felt very over powering... i will address adding eq to the vocal thanks for that point... but what about the volume of the track it it okay? i am still struggling.

 

[Shorn Hertz]

This is a track i recorded with some friends at a local studio. I am the one singing the hook. can someone... anyone tell me how did they get the vocals so full and solid. and to stand out without overpowering the beat..

the studio setup was very simple. Condenser mic, Mbox2, pro tools. i always use this track to reference my vocal mixing but can never get it

 

[MrWrenchey]

Some really squashed metal sometimes averages up in the -9 or -10, but that's just kooky talk.

There's a band called Memphis May Fire that is kinda a joke amongst the audio engineers in town here because they slam it to -5 or -6.

Some electronic artist called "Knife Party" slams theirs to -2.5. And that's RMS level.

Why do people do these things. Why. xD

 

[Xcaliber]

I'm a total noob too Shorn, but I wanted to say I listened to the track and I like it a lot. I agree with what the others have said in that the vocals are a little too "up front", but that's just from a listeners perspective. If you can figure out how to make them blend a little more I think it would really help.

Good luck!

 

[Rafael Morgan]

This is a track i recorded with some friends at a local studio. I am the one singing the hook. can someone... anyone tell me how did they get the vocals so full and solid. and to stand out without overpowering the beat..

the studio setup was very simple. Condenser mic, Mbox2, pro tools. i always use this track to reference my vocal mixing but can never get it

Hey mate,

There are a lot of variables that can make vocals fit better in a mix...

First, if you're using a condenser, you surely need to play with mic placement. I makes a lot of difference. In this particular track, I believe the vocalist is a bit closer to the mic than you were in that other track.

Secondly, I believe the backing track here is a lot more sparse...It has more space to accommodate the vocals.

Thirdly, the room makes a lot of different. If it was recorded on your local studio, the room probably sounds much better than your bedroom or wherever you record at home.

Anyway, if you ask me, I don't think these recorded vocals sound much better than yours. You can get there or even better with your setup....Just take it easy and give yourself some time...At least that's what I'm doing, since I'm also fighting the same battle as yours.

I've been using this plugin on my vocals with very nice results. The compressors sound awesome and the EQ is very sweet. Why don't you give it a try? This developer is absolutely great.

Raf.

 

[Shorn Hertz]

Thanks Again Raf, definitely checking that out. how about a link to your music bro? i'd love to take a listen and get some perspective from another P.o.v