Where to find Cheap Mixing and Mastering??

In my day job I have this thing where I'm not really allowed to say "no", and I try to bring that attitude to my other professional endeavors as well. The truth is that mastering from stems is a pretty common practice and has been for quite a while. It does give the ME a lot more room to work compared to a simple stereo bounce.

I mean, I suppose that if you've got enough work to turn it away for a reason like this...well good for you! :)
 
Two stereo stems, vocals and instruments, maybe. Being half mixed means you're mixing rather than mastering, and you can't even really mix it. If I'm going to have the responsibility to mix it then I want to power to get it done right.
 
Well, like I said, if you don't really need the job, then you can go ahead and dictate to the customer whatever terms you want and they can take it or leave it. That is one form of professionalism, I guess.

It is no less professional to take what they give you and do the best you can. It's still important to explain to the client the sorts of compromises you're going to have to make and set proper expectations on the results, but if you're actually in the business of trying to help in any way you can...
 
I have done jobs where I had to make do with what I was given. It generally means a lot more time and frustration that is hard to bill for. I did a mastering job not long ago that took way longer than it had to because the client wanted to use the flawed mix they had. I could have remixed it better and mastered it in less time and with less frustration. It came out okay, but I had to choose between putting in a ton of extra, unbillable, time or accepting a subpar result that I would not want my name on. If putting in the extra time to salvage a bad mix is unprofessional, then I guess that's what I am. And, yes, at the moment I'm busy enough to be selective about what jobs I take.
 
I'm with BSG. It is harder and more time consuming to do a compromised job with sub-par tracks or stems.

The only difference is worrying about putting my name on half assed stuff. If the artist is going to give you bad tracks, or paint you into a corner, then chances are, not many people will ever hear it.

Also, if you do enough good work, that will speak for itself. If you are known for your good work, anyone who hears the bad stuff will assume it's the band.
 
Farview said:
I'm with BSG. It is harder and more time consuming to do a compromised job with sub-par tracks or stems.

The only difference is worrying about putting my name on half assed stuff. If the artist is going to give you bad tracks, or paint you into a corner, then chances are, not many people will ever hear it.

Also, if you do enough good work, that will speak for itself. If you are known for your good work, anyone who hears the bad stuff will assume it's the band.
Click to expand...



And then there is the fact that what others think is bad (music) is just personal opinion.

That being said, I work with quite a few genres. Most all original except for the occasional cover tune. But 99% of the time it is all original instruments recorded by either myself or friends. I got a bunch of extremely talented guys on my friends list...

The last cover tune I did with a 'purchased' backing track was for a girl who wanted to sing a song at here grandma's funeral. Well worth my time and free to her. That was a Melodyne moment and worth every penny...


Oh yeah, and I forgot about the rapper guys... They are good tho...

Anyway, most of what I do is record full band records from drums to finish mix. Sometimes mastering though I like it better when they pay another to do that. I won't take the time to describe why.

I occasionally do free work for members here. But only when I find something I feel I can help with.

Some times just a one off mix for a member in need. If I feel I like it and give a shit personally, I will offer to mix. A couple of times, they actually turned out to be semi successful collaborations/releases in other countries over the years. No Grammy's here by any means, but some great product and learning experience for myself as well as meeting people from other countries.

One such member that I mixed/produced/mastered a record for 4 years ago, came to US from Germany to see the US with his brother. We spent 3 days touring a land he and his brother had only seen in movies. I learned more from them in three days about the world than I had in 40 years. It was fucking awesome! I would not have had that experience if it were not for this forum and my being here to offer help to someone asking.


So for myself, I take offers for work like I choose raw meat at the store. If it looks good and fresh and I know what marinade works for me and may be tasty for others? Well maybe I take on the cooking/mixing of the genre of product.

If it does not seem like a good mix of spices, I would surely not charge someone for me to 'Google How To Mix This Record'. That would just be bullshit and not cool.



To often 'one time' posters come here for help, only to never return to help others. That has always made me wonder why I am here. Then I see my daughter...


Is it more about 'if' what I feel I can do to help someone who has a real need for help, knows what they actually need? It may be...
 
Last edited:
Farview said:
I'm with BSG. It is harder and more time consuming to do a compromised job with sub-par tracks or stems.
Click to expand...
That seems like a rather unfair assumption. I don't know the OP (I do know they posted this exact same thing word-for-word on the Reaper forum :/ ), but it's kind a like "duh, yeah, sub-par stems lead to sub-par results". A sub-par stereo mix is gonna make mastering tough, too, and even if you have all the tracks, if they're not actually any good...

I'm going to say again that mastering from stems is in fact pretty common procedure. Big name mix engineers working for big name clients deliver stems to big name mastering engineers on a routine basis. You don't have to work that way, you can argue all you want about whether it's a good or bad idea. People are making big dollars doing it, so...

Properly prepared stems will actually represent the whole final mix exactly the way the mix engineer intended. You import the files to separate tracks, set everything to unity, push play, and that's the mix. So why bother with stems at all, why not the just the whole mix? Well, it allows the ME more options and less compromise. Duh.

It also allows the ME to help produce alternate products like "Vocal Up", "Rhythm Up", "Instrumental" or whatever the label might ask for.

So, run your business any way you want, and I am truly happy for you that you feel you can turn away work, but this is not some crazy left-field idea. It's SOP in certain circles.
 
Since when we're we talking about mastering? The OP was saying that he doesn't want to burden a mix engineer with all the separate tracks, so he sends stems.

I pointed out that those stems would paint any mix engineer into a corner and they might not be able to do the best job they could, because most of the control has been lost.

Balancing a mix is the easy part, eqing, compressing and trimming everything to make it fit together is the hard part...and you can't really do that with stems. If you try, you will spend a bunch more time trying to work around what you were given.

There are no assumptions here. I've been mixing stuff sento from around the world for over 20 years. I've done the mixing from stem thing a lot, and it is always a compromised result compared to what I would have done if I had the individual tracks. Always.

In the last 10 years or so, I'm getting mostly projects from amateur recordists. Nearly every theme they try to "do me a favor" by editing stuff, I end up spending hours removing clicks and pops, or putting tails that they lopped off back on to tracks.

These aren't professionals, so they don't know any better. But it does take more time to sort through this sort of stuff.
 
ashcat_lt said:
That seems like a rather unfair assumption. I don't know the OP (I do know they posted this exact same thing word-for-word on the Reaper forum :/ ), but it's kind a like "duh, yeah, sub-par stems lead to sub-par results". A sub-par stereo mix is gonna make mastering tough, too, and even if you have all the tracks, if they're not actually any good...

I'm going to say again that mastering from stems is in fact pretty common procedure. Big name mix engineers working for big name clients deliver stems to big name mastering engineers on a routine basis. You don't have to work that way, you can argue all you want about whether it's a good or bad idea. People are making big dollars doing it, so...

Properly prepared stems will actually represent the whole final mix exactly the way the mix engineer intended. You import the files to separate tracks, set everything to unity, push play, and that's the mix. So why bother with stems at all, why not the just the whole mix? Well, it allows the ME more options and less compromise. Duh.

It also allows the ME to help produce alternate products like "Vocal Up", "Rhythm Up", "Instrumental" or whatever the label might ask for.

So, run your business any way you want, and I am truly happy for you that you feel you can turn away work, but this is not some crazy left-field idea. It's SOP in certain circles.
Click to expand...

You stated 'properly prepared stems in the way the mix engineer intended. We haven't got that far dood.

Since we were talking about mixing in this thread and not mastering, take a chill pill. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
You stated 'properly prepared stems in the way the mix engineer intended. We haven't got that far dood.

Since we were talking about mixing in this thread and not mastering, take a chill pill. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah...I guess I was trying too hard. The thread title does include mastering, after all.

I guess if a client asks what I would prefer, I'd definitely advise them to send individual tracks, but if they were like "this is all I've got", I'd take it and do the best I could.
 
I've also had a few people who figured I knew some sort of magic formula to make anything awesome. They wouldn't give me much to work with, I would fight the project the whole way, doing way more work than I can charge for,then the client is disappointed with the results.

Like I said before, I don't care about putting my name on half-assed stuff. (as long as what I did wasn't half-assed). But as soon as I get the feeling that I am putting more effort into the project than the artist is, I bow out.

When the client isn't satisfied with the result, the only thing I can possibly do would be to refund some (or all) of the money. If I already put in more time than I charged, it becomes a complete waste of time and effort very quickly.
 
farview said:
if you premix to 6 stems, that would drive me nuts. It paints me into the corner before i even start.

You would probably get a better result from a mix engineer if you give them all the separate tracks, so that they don't have to work around your balances.
Click to expand...

right
 
People will have their preferred ways of working. If I have to I'll deal with constraints, but I prefer to build the mix from the ground up. It's usually faster, easier and takes less time.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I have done jobs where I had to make do with what I was given. It generally means a lot more time and frustration that is hard to bill for. I did a mastering job not long ago that took way longer than it had to because the client wanted to use the flawed mix they had. I could have remixed it better and mastered it in less time and with less frustration. It came out okay, but I had to choose between putting in a ton of extra, unbillable, time or accepting a subpar result that I would not want my name on. If putting in the extra time to salvage a bad mix is unprofessional, then I guess that's what I am. And, yes, at the moment I'm busy enough to be selective about what jobs I take.
Click to expand...

Ouch. Why take the job in the first place?
 
Farview said:
I'm with BSG.
Click to expand...
Me three!
The only difference is worrying about putting my name on half assed stuff. If the artist is going to give you bad tracks, or paint you into a corner, then chances are, not many people will ever hear it.
Click to expand...
That reputation hit can hurt you more than their measly little chump change is going to help!
Also, if you do enough good work, that will speak for itself. If you are known for your good work, anyone who hears the bad stuff will assume it's the band.
Click to expand...
I don't know that 'anyone' is discerning enough to tell the artist apart from the engineer. Often this isn't the case in my experience.
 
Maybe not anyone. But other artists shopping for engineers will, through their research, notice the anomaly.

I've only had one project that I did a terrible job on come back to haunt me. Over a 25 year career, that isn't much. It was a case where I was still pretty green and had the band do musically inappropriate things, which resulted in an album that doesn't work well. Unfortunately, they have an international following. Fortunately, they have been kind enough to call it "a learning experience" in interviews, when in reality I was an idiot and screwed up their record by insisting on doing things "the right way".

But even with that disaster, I still had a career and a good reputation over time. I have taken on some terrible bands and done projects that were so bad that the only thing I could do was make them less annoying. It was fine, mainly because bands that don't play well, sound bad and make poor musical choices aren't usually very popular.
 
I personally deal mostly with recording rock bands from setup to mastering. Occasionally some can afford a mastering guy at the end. Almost always friends or friends of friends.

I also do some mixing or mastering for people that my friends have recommended me to, but that is a rarity. I do not go out of my way to find such work. Fixing shit is something I find I am actually good at, but not something I desire to do for profit or to put my name on. More as a favor or because it is interesting to me. MMHV- My Mileage Has Varied...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top