Translation problem

dainbramage

New member
I'm mixing in a pretty small room, but it's well treated with bass traps (tri-traps and 244 traps) in the corners and 242 traps at reflection points. I'm using the Sonodyne SM100AK monitors along with a KRK 10" subwoofer (which I barely have any volume on).

So here's the problem: When I do a bit "crowded" mixes, they don't seem to translate that well to other systems (living room stereo, pc speakers, car, other people's systems etc). Typically the drums become too loud and lower bass frequencies are too prominent. I usually have to listen to my mixes on other systems and adjust accordingly.

What am I doing wrong here?:confused:
 
If you're noticing the same things every time then there might be some different mix decisions you can make before you get to referencing that will make life easier for you.

Sounds like you're doing nothing 'wrong' to me, it's just part of the process. Could be that your monitoring is letting you down if there are the same recurring problems going on. I'm far from an expert on the matter but I'm led to believe that sub-woofers in small rooms are more trouble than they're worth.
 
I'm mixing in a pretty small room, but it's well treated with bass traps (tri-traps and 244 traps) in the corners and 242 traps at reflection points. I'm using the Sonodyne SM100AK monitors along with a KRK 10" subwoofer (which I barely have any volume on).

So here's the problem: When I do a bit "crowded" mixes, they don't seem to translate that well to other systems (living room stereo, pc speakers, car, other people's systems etc). Typically the drums become too loud and lower bass frequencies are too prominent. I usually have to listen to my mixes on other systems and adjust accordingly.

What am I doing wrong here?:confused:

If the bottom end is generally over-represented on other systems, but sounds about right on yours, it means that your system (speakers + room) is fooling you into think there is less bass than there actually is, Getting it sounding right in your system means you are actually augmenting the bottom end more than needed.

If you give the sub more level, it will increase the bottom end, which will cause you to reduce it in the mix. This then should give a more balanced spectrum on other systems.
 
I'm led to believe that sub-woofers in small rooms are more trouble than they're worth.

This is what I always heard too so I've kept the volume of the sub-woofer at a bare minimum, but...

If you give the sub more level, it will increase the bottom end, which will cause you to reduce it in the mix. This then should give a more balanced spectrum on other systems.

...this really helped! I've conducted some research the past few days: rendering tracks and comparing them at different systems and in different rooms and at last I think I found the perfect level for the sub-woofer. It is louder than it was and my mixes seem to translate much, much better now.

How do people mix without a subwoofer? I would probably not have heard the LF-rumble then and my mixes would sound horrible.

Thanks a lot to both of you!
 
People mix in all sorts of imperfect monitoring situations all the time.

Is it optimum? No, but once you go through the process with a few songs you can start to learn how it translates.
 
If the bottom end is generally over-represented on other systems, but sounds about right on yours, it means that your system (speakers + room) is fooling you into think there is less bass than there actually is, Getting it sounding right in your system means you are actually augmenting the bottom end more than needed.

OR his other systems could be bass heavy.
 
OR his other systems could be bass heavy.

True enough. But it is more than just his systems. It is everyone's as well, according to the OP. Occam's Razor suggests the problem is more likely to be with his system, rather than every other system.
 
How do people mix without a subwoofer?

I guess people learn to infer where there might be low end problems/rumbles, listen really carefully &/or have a properly treated listening environment. The frequency response of monitors goes well below the stated response with varying levels of bass roll-off - more gentle roll off means you can still hear things going on below the stated frequency response, but it'd be hard to tell in an untreated environment.
 
Subs make things way more complicated; I've yet to hear a well set up sub.
I will do (and have done) anything and everything I can to avoid using subs. Great for home theater -- Can of worms for most critical applications. I don't even consider myself qualified to put a system together with a sub (although I have successfully in the past).

The OP's original issue is using 6.5's that *barely* make it down to 60Hz (and that's probably a -6dB point at that).
 
I have very small experience mixing because I don't do it as a job -- just producing my own stuff.

Anyway, in my 'improvised studio' I have a pair of cheapo Edifiers monitors and a pair of vintage hi-fi loudspeaker with two 8" woofers each (clearly have a lot more bass).

Lately I have found myself more comfortable and getting better results mixing with the loudspeakers than with the monitors. I am not saying that my mixes are awesome (sincerely I think they are not, they are barely passable) but I noticed that when I hear it on other systems they seem to sound as I expected (no surprises). Recently I had a small issue with bass canceling (due to the fact that my room is not treated) but that I could identify as being a room issue with the phones thanks to the help of HR fellows. However it was only one case among fifteen tunes of an album.

All in all what I mean is that FOR ME to mix with some good bass around has helped a lot. Anyway, since you already know that your tunes sound with a certain amount of more bass on other systems now is just a matter of make your room match the other systems by adding extra bass to your environment. It seems to be very easy and your sub-woofer will help.

:)
 
All in all what I mean is that FOR ME to mix with some good bass around has helped a lot. Anyway, since you already know that your tunes sound with a certain amount of more bass on other systems now is just a matter of make your room match the other systems by adding extra bass to your environment. It seems to be very easy and your sub-woofer will help.

Yeah, here too.

It might just be my ears, but without the sub my monitoring system sounds SO different from other systems that making it translate well would be extremely difficult for me.
 
If you can't hear it, you can't control it. That is exactly why I have a sub-woofer.

Glad you have it worked out better for you now.

For myself it was almost the opposite. It took me a while to realize the sub was too much. Moving it's placement and level adjustment eventually solved my issues. Also abandoning the KRK G28's helped. I initially thought my Event TR8's were lacking in low end and never used them but once I got the sub in the right place, they are now my favorite monitors. It is quite drastic how different monitor speakers sound. It is a challenge just 'learning' what they are showing you...
 
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