Is there a faster way to level out vocals?
- Thread starter Sammmo
- Start date
Steenamaroo
...
The faster way is not to post in multiple forums.
That's definitely the slower way.
Welcome to HR, none the less.
That's definitely the slower way.
Welcome to HR, none the less.
Mack Caster
Banned
I do not use PT but somewhere in your menu you will find a plugin called "Normalize". Just so you know, this will only work on your highest peak and is the sloppy way of doing things. The best way to do this is by using proper mic technique followed by some very slight compression. If you speak softer at times, move in towards your mic, it is just the opposite when you may speak louder. It takes a little practice but once learned, it will become second nature.
Farview
Well-known member
It really looks like you are getting hung up on the numbers. The waveform you have there doesn't really look like it is wildly dynamic. A compressor should smooth that out without any trouble.
However, since you didn't zoom in, I could be wrong. Waves has a plugin called Vocal Rider which automatically rides the level of the track. You can also use automation to ride the track.
But unless the performance is really out of whack, you really don't need to go line by line adjusting the volume to make sure that the meter reads -18dbfs. It will take the life out of the performance if you do too much of that.
However, since you didn't zoom in, I could be wrong. Waves has a plugin called Vocal Rider which automatically rides the level of the track. You can also use automation to ride the track.
But unless the performance is really out of whack, you really don't need to go line by line adjusting the volume to make sure that the meter reads -18dbfs. It will take the life out of the performance if you do too much of that.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
VocalRider is kind of expensive. If you were in Reaper, I know somebody wrote a script that does about the same thing and apply it directly to the take volume (what PT calls clip gain) envelope. But really those methods are just RMS compression, maybe with some lookahead, and that's how I do it.
Find a compressor with a "lookahead" or "precomp" parameter and an RMS parameter. Set RMS pretty long and lookahead exactly half of that. I use ReaComp, and its precomp parameter tops out at 250ms, so I set RMS to 500, and it works fine on most material. Attack and Release to 0 (or as low as possible) and then ratio doesn't have to be so big. On vocals I sometimes end up as high as 4:1, but more often down around 2. You kind of have to set that to taste. It works best if you set the threshold so that it is almost always doing a little bit, and even better if it's got a soft knee.
A lot of people will tell you that doing it by hand is the "right way" and everything else is cheating, but when it just works almost all of the time and saves me time and frustration so I can do other, more important things... I'll sometimes manually adjust things that are really way off, but then I'll gladly cheat.
But does PT not have a clip gain envelope? It must, if you're talking about recording a MIDI knob. I would think that drawing curves there would be at least a little faster than splitting it up and adjusting each chunk separately.
Yes it probably should have been handled in tracking, and yes you might be too caught up on numbers, but frankly this kind of leveling makes almost every vocal sound a little bit more polished and ready. It can make a good performance better, and a great performance...well...better.
Find a compressor with a "lookahead" or "precomp" parameter and an RMS parameter. Set RMS pretty long and lookahead exactly half of that. I use ReaComp, and its precomp parameter tops out at 250ms, so I set RMS to 500, and it works fine on most material. Attack and Release to 0 (or as low as possible) and then ratio doesn't have to be so big. On vocals I sometimes end up as high as 4:1, but more often down around 2. You kind of have to set that to taste. It works best if you set the threshold so that it is almost always doing a little bit, and even better if it's got a soft knee.
A lot of people will tell you that doing it by hand is the "right way" and everything else is cheating, but when it just works almost all of the time and saves me time and frustration so I can do other, more important things... I'll sometimes manually adjust things that are really way off, but then I'll gladly cheat.
But does PT not have a clip gain envelope? It must, if you're talking about recording a MIDI knob. I would think that drawing curves there would be at least a little faster than splitting it up and adjusting each chunk separately.
Yes it probably should have been handled in tracking, and yes you might be too caught up on numbers, but frankly this kind of leveling makes almost every vocal sound a little bit more polished and ready. It can make a good performance better, and a great performance...well...better.
JDsound
New member
Hey Sammmo,
It definitely sounds like you're a bit caught up in the numbers. It's nice to have those things in the back of your mind (gain stagging, etc), but this is not a hard and fast rule.
What I would recommend is similar to some of the replies, with a few additions. Feel free to try one or all and see how they work for you:
1) split verses from choruses; each should have their own track (unless the singer is carrying a very similar energy across the entire track). - this will allow you to treat what are generally different levels as such... different.
2) find a compressor that works well for the chorus track, and then one that works for the verse track
3) once you mix the track (music), you will open up the automation on both your verse and chorus tracks, and lift words/sections that need it, and lower those that need it.
-This is time consuming, but it has to be. Most songs are vocal focused, so you should spend as much time as you need to to ensure the words can be heard. Doing this more frequently will ensure you get faster. I would personally focus on getting faster, but still doing great work.
I'm sure there are plugins that will help you with this last part (some have already been mentioned), but with the vocal being so important, it would probably increase your overall skills and understanding of production if you learn by listening, and then move the vocals up or down as needed.
Hope this helps!
It definitely sounds like you're a bit caught up in the numbers. It's nice to have those things in the back of your mind (gain stagging, etc), but this is not a hard and fast rule.
What I would recommend is similar to some of the replies, with a few additions. Feel free to try one or all and see how they work for you:
1) split verses from choruses; each should have their own track (unless the singer is carrying a very similar energy across the entire track). - this will allow you to treat what are generally different levels as such... different.
2) find a compressor that works well for the chorus track, and then one that works for the verse track
3) once you mix the track (music), you will open up the automation on both your verse and chorus tracks, and lift words/sections that need it, and lower those that need it.
-This is time consuming, but it has to be. Most songs are vocal focused, so you should spend as much time as you need to to ensure the words can be heard. Doing this more frequently will ensure you get faster. I would personally focus on getting faster, but still doing great work.
I'm sure there are plugins that will help you with this last part (some have already been mentioned), but with the vocal being so important, it would probably increase your overall skills and understanding of production if you learn by listening, and then move the vocals up or down as needed.
Hope this helps!
mjbphotos
Moderator
My vocals tend to need a lot of volume automation, but I've found that with experience, I can 'draw ahead' as I listen - adding automation points, and then dragging that section up/down as needed. I also pay attention to how the waveform looks - it's easy to spot overly loud or overly soft words/phrases and do a quick basic adjustment and then fine tune it on a subsequent pass.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
I just compress as needed, then do a bit of Clip Gain editing in the spots where the compressor seems overwhelmed.
witzendoz
Senior Member
The faster way is not to post in multiple forums.
That's definitely the slower way.
Welcome to HR, none the less.
I just wrote an answer on one of the others
Steenamaroo
...
Oops...Should have tidied up. My bad!
I totally agree.. I was recording and mixing before the age of digital, let alone D.A.W. ... My best advice has always been K.I.S.S. As in 'Keep It Simple...'.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Boy that's a good one! Can I use it?
" Is there a faster way to level out vocals? "
yes there is. You track with a compressor in the signal chain and use the compressor as a limiter. That a way, the converter is capturing a usable signal and less time is needed in the Daw for final touches on the track. When someone tracks with too much dynamic range, the signal to noise of the converter can work against it, and reduction of the dynamic range inside the daw with a plugin will have a tendency to raise the noise floor and lower its high frequency response (mainly because of the amount of dynamic range reduction needed)
yes there is. You track with a compressor in the signal chain and use the compressor as a limiter. That a way, the converter is capturing a usable signal and less time is needed in the Daw for final touches on the track. When someone tracks with too much dynamic range, the signal to noise of the converter can work against it, and reduction of the dynamic range inside the daw with a plugin will have a tendency to raise the noise floor and lower its high frequency response (mainly because of the amount of dynamic range reduction needed)
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Great advice for someone working with 12 bit gear or noisy preamps.
it works for all. All converters suffer a gain level to signal to noise level dependency. Its only measurable in stead of audible in the converters that have ultra low impedance virtual grounds (like Burl Bomber, and Burl Mothership ADC)
A great all in one tracking solution that API came up about a decade or so ago with, was its 8mx2 that was under the subsidiary ATI (audio toys inc.) that they changed their name to JDK later.
all you have to do is track sans compressor limiter ..the take the recorded track..buss that to a compressor limiter..ride the limiter input to not crush the loud spots but sill glue soft spots..then take that and ride the bus out of that chain to another adio track and commit then pop in a light compressor and ride