Sounds Over Vocals?

BillyBenson

New member
The title pretty much explains it.
When I first started mixing music I didn't know what I was doing. I just applied different presets until it sounded right enough. These days I'm taking more control over my mixes, and it's been fun always achieving a solid mix. One thing that's always stumped me though...



The vocal in this track is clear as day, and the strings... are sitting over it?
Is that the result of extensive eq on both the guitar and vocal?
I'm a cutter, but I never seem to cut enough so my instruments could seemingly sit over a vocal.

A similar occurance here:


The synth fades in at the 1:42 mark and is at it's max volume at about 1:52.

Are these just results of eq? Is there something going on during the recording stage? This is one thing I'd really like some insight on.
 
Those are both the result of scooping - although there are no 'strings' in the first song, I guess you meant the guitars? The vocals on both have had the mids scooped out a lot (and SLM has way too much high reverb on it for my taste) and the instruments have had the low-highs EQed down.
 
Those are both the result of scooping - although there are no 'strings' in the first song, I guess you meant the guitars?.

I refer to anything with strings as strings, so yes.
Ahh, yes. THat's what they did. Makes so much sense. I knew it was the result of excessive eq. I really like thee end result.

EDIT:

Just tried it on one of my mixes. Was discouraged at first because I immediately (I hate this word so much) went overboard, but after finding some frequencies I didn't mind getting rid of I really like the result. Also did some research on scooping after I saw your reply. Seems like it's frowned upon in the engineer community, but mixes like these are what made me want to make music in the first place.
 
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Guitars def have strings, therefore, you were correct. :)
...but is a hi-hat a cymbal? :p


Also did some research on scooping after I saw your reply. Seems like it's frowned upon in the engineer community, but mixes like these are what made me want to make music in the first place.

Most times advice and 'rules' about eq will be in the context of fixing something.
Heavy or surgical eq usually is frowned upon if its compensating for bad capturing of a source.

If you're going for some unique or unnatural effect, though, go for it! :)

Just tried it on one of my mixes. Was discouraged at first because I immediately (I hate this word so much) went overboard, but after finding some frequencies I didn't mind getting rid of I really like the result.

Ha. Been there! Most of the tools and effects I have do something good.
I don't think any of them does good when set to 11, though. ;)


That synth at 1:40 ish on the video sounds like it has its extreme highs rolled off, so it gets away with being quite prominent without crowding the detail of the vocal.
To go extreme with it, a bass guitar isn't likely to crowd a hi-hat. This guy has just made sure that the important content of each part isn't fighting the important content of another.
 
SOLID POST, Steen!

My music is pretty much crafted in the box aside from vocals (except when I experiment with vocaloids), so I don't have to worry too much about capturing perfect sounds aside from when I'm recording. With a good recording I'm sure I can scoop the mids out of all my vocals. I had always wondered how some engineers could literally bury the vocal under sounds without the mix sounding muddy, or the vocal getting lost.
My assumption was some sort of other secret going on, but I am slowly realizing that nothing in this world is too illusive It's all pretty straight forward.


Steenamaroo said:
...but is a hi-hat a cymbal?

Of course not, haha. I'm 95% in the box and don't play any instruments, so I tend to refer to actual instruments as what I would call what I use. Not sure if that sentence was grammatically correct..
 
I am not sure if this is what scooping is, but I use a combination of ducking and eq slicing I believe. I feed my violin, guitars, and keyboards into a bus, and then split the bus into high/low sends to 2 buses (using HPF/LPF to cut track into the 2). I let the low end bus run through to the master, but put 2 sidechain compressors on the "high" bus and duck it slightly with the vocals and snare.

Now I was working with poor tracking (I had no control over that), but this really did the trick for me to allow the snare to pop clear, and the vocals to sound clear and crisp. The ducking is barely noticeable (it is slight), but had a big impact.

I tried doing it with just EQ, but it was either too destructive, or not really effective.
 
I am not sure if this is what scooping is, but I use a combination of ducking and eq slicing I believe.

Scooping is just another word for cutting/reducing. It is associated with eq'ing most of the time. If you are a Bass Player and you cut/reduce the mid section on the 3 eq bands on your amp for instance, then you would be "scooping" the mids. If done improperly, it will leave your sound, sounding very thin or tinny. If done in moderation or fits in the mix, then it will enhance the audio. It just depends on how it sits in the mix. There is no set rule as far as I know. You can apply this to any instruments or vocals as well.
 
Leave it as raw as possible. Cut out noise if you can, but leave it in if it makes it interesting. Overproduced music is just boring.
That's just my opinion but I think your listeners would agree with it.
 
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