sound perception

Miraslov, it's not the money so much it's that I'm down near London for a year in a rented place (my house up north does have some sound treatment)
So I cant really do anything to the place I'm living as it's rented.

I gather from this thread that both yourself and Fairview find the mix is thin where I find it quite dull and bassy.
This could of course be down to the ARC plugin on the master buss.
I may tweak that ARC profile, maybe split the difference and do a quick mix to see if that sounds any better to you guys.
 
In my room it sounds really bassy:) I'll take the mixes out to another room next week, thanks for the help
Add some 50hz to the kick before the compression.

You've kind of run into the problem where you made the kick and the bass sound the same. But neither one has much energy in the bottom octaves.
Messed with it a bit, and wow. First off all I'm glad I didn't try to guess on the first listen- I would have said the kick had a hump around 50 or 60. But bringing it up proper on the mains and with an eq- I find it has a ton of low extension- 30-50Hz. Jay? :eek: :)
I did a 53Hz shelf and 33Hz narrow dip (seems to be the kick's center of energy) both cut about -2 or more. Bass hangs well above that.

Find those swishy' string squeaky noises or what ever they are..
Tuck in the vocal in the chorus..
Too bad the bass doesn't have some clarity. It's just kind of woolly'.
 
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Ok a couple of quick listens- w/ ARC seems like more lows than w/o. But - the ARC is supposed to be only in the monitor path right? Or is it in the mix path like an eq?
The low end does seem to me to be more in balance, but the bigger things that strike me remain mix / instrument balance, tone and level choices.
 
gentle bump

You bumping for anything specific...?
I only see threads getting bumped in the classified forums. :D

Oh....sorry....I didn't see that you asked mixit a specific question.
The thread got lost in the forum mix after four days....it happens. Sometimes PM get someone's attention quicker.


I would give them a listen on my studio system...but my DAW is not tied to the Internet, I run my DAW offline.
I don't see any download option on your Soundcloud files. I would have to take the files off my Internet computer and bring them to my studio system to hear them....otherwise, on my Internet laptop, I can't hear the low end that well with the small speakers.
 
mixsit, the ARC is only meant for monitoring but out of interest I left it on the master buss when I mixed down to see how it sounded on other peoples systems.
"but the bigger things that strike me remain mix / instrument balance, tone and level choices" Any advice on this re this track would be gratefully received.

miraslov, I have made those 2 tracks available for download if you fancy a listen.
Thanks,
Mike
 
Messed with it a bit, and wow. First off all I'm glad I didn't try to guess on the first listen- I would have said the kick had a hump around 50 or 60. But bringing it up proper on the mains and with an eq- I find it has a ton of low extension- 30-50Hz. Jay? :eek: :)
Ooops, still not used to the new control room. It obviously doesn't have much energy in the octave above that, where more systems can reproduce it and where it has more punch. There really isn't much point to having a ton of energy below 50hz. The octave above that is much more useful.
 
...couple (or three) humble points:

1. The "without" mix has no balls. Even the "with" one has too little bass guitar. On the other hand, the kick and the bass sound are way better than they were on early mixes (posted on a previous page). Gone are the cardboard kick sound (too much low mids) and the screechy bass fret noise.

2. Why are you wasting time with ARC? Do you use ARC when you listen to your benchmark commercial tracks? No, right? Why put your tracks trough it then?

3. The reverb/room sound/OH sound/whatever that is "pushing" the kick to the right after the initial hit gets tiring real quick.
 
mamm, the reason ARC is being used is because when I've been taking mixes (not just this track) to play on other systems they seemed way too bassy.
It did seem to improve the consistency of playing tracks on different systems but no, your right, I don't listen to commercial tracks thru it.

With regard to the bass drum, I wanted a very roomy sound but found that it just mushed up everything and didn't sound spacey at all. I'm open to ideas/alternatives.
 
I don't listen to commercial tracks thru it
By using ARC when listening to your tracks and not using it when listening to the benchmark, you are aiming at a moving target... ;-)

With regard to the bass drum, I wanted a very roomy sound but found that it just mushed up everything and didn't sound spacey at all. I'm open to ideas/alternatives.
Where does that kick "reverb" on the right channel comes from? OH mics, room mic, reverb plugin, etc?
 
OK...so I listened to the two clips on my studio system

First off....with either ARC or none....your stereo image seemed skewed to the right, especially with the Kick.
Also, there were some odd image shifts during the song transitions. Now I know you have some guitars that come in on the left, and also the B vocals that come in/out...but wasn't just that....I kept hearing odd tonal/image shifts that occur with those transitions.
Plus, when your L vocal comes back in, it adds to that.

I dunno...maybe you've applied some sort of processing/FX to try and make it interesting, and that's what I'm hearing with the image shifts....but whatever it is, I found it distracting.

Why do you have the Kick so far off to the right...?

AFA the overall difference of the low end with the ARC and without...
Sure, there's a lot more low end with it, but it sounds synthetic....which may or may not work for what you want.
I think you should try and work the low end with a different approach instead of the ARC.
Personally...I would lose the ARC altogether, even for monitoring, as I think it is screwing with your hearing perceptions, which may be contributing to what I'm hearing AFA the image shifts and unbalanced L/R mix.
 
miraslov, I'm gonna do exactly that, start a new mix without the ARC.
I'll post it up when I get a half decent balance, thanks.
 
Online Tone Generator - Free, Simple and Easy to Use.

Go there....select 120hz and walk around the room. Stick your face into a corner. You'll get a better picture of what's happening in your room. You need treatments to deal with it.

Be advised though. If you treat a room you won't want completely dead...or you end up with additional, more difficult problems to solve. Look into doing something like this...which basically breaks up reflections quickly.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/primacoustic-london-8-room-kit/h83129000003000?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CKeLvPTb-8MCFQKTaQoda0oA7w&kwid=productads-plaid^83573034987-sku^H83129000003000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^53736456387
 
Be advised though. If you treat a room you won't want completely dead...

I agree...though I don't think he is planning to do any treatment at this time.


I've seen some home studios where they look like a bass trap storage facility. :D
I mean, if your spoken voice seems like it's dying off 2" away from your mouth as you speak....maybe the room is too dead. :p
 
I agree...though I don't think he is planning to do any treatment at this time.


I've seen some home studios where they look like a bass trap storage facility. :D
I mean, if your spoken voice seems like it's dying off 2" away from your mouth as you speak....maybe the room is too dead. :p

Ya...you can dump a ton of money into room treatments...and if you aren't savvy about what you're after...you can dump even more. Listening to a lo-freq generated tone and walking around in your room is free though...and illustrates the issue to people. You can almost "see" the standing waves and resonate peaks when you walk through them.

Without spending a dime....putting the mic stand outside of a resonate peak is going to go a certain way to managing problem frequencies when recording. It's harder find an ideal mic placement as the room gets smaller...but worth considering in a larger space where you have more options for mic placement...and more reflective surfaces. You can also do the math if you like...which would more precisely quantify this stuff but this experiment makes it real.

In my untreated room (in the process of getting there) there is a 32" difference between the resonate peak and the node of phase cancellation along the long wall...and that's just considering lateral movement. The potential amplitude differential of 300hz, depending on height, azimuth, and x/y lateral position is quite stunning. Turning your head changes everything. Bobbing your head up and down changes everything. At the end of doing this is it's pretty hard NOT to see mic placement as having a large impact on tone in an untreated room.

I've seen some home studios where they look like a bass trap storage facility.

That was my first attempt (about 30 years ago). That room was as dead but it was my first "space" for music...so it had it's value. My current room has just been converted from an office. I'm about to spend a small wad of money on treatments myself (Owens Corning 703 and other building materials). Strategically placed absorbent wall panels and bass traps are going to go a long way in this room to deal with its resonate peaks. I'm curious afterwards how critical mic placement and azimuth angle are going to be.

Right now, in my room, mic placement makes a night and day difference. I don't have a db meter, but moving 32", I'd guess it was a 15db difference at 300hz and a fair volume.

When you can identify where the standing waves are in your own room you still wont be able to perfectly "see" what's happening because the space you're in is three dimensional. Floor and ceiling play the same role as walls. What you WILL know is about how far to move a mic stand to get a fundamentally different result. In this currently stupid room, for lo-mid control, the sweet spot is 16" from a bad spot. Knowing this adds a degree of control that before...I didn't know I had.

After the treatments I believe that my 16" mic movement position will still exist for 300hz and there will still be mic placements considerations. I just expect the amplitude difference to be quite a bit less for a lot of frequencies. I'm going to be guessing about the position of each panel but I'm pretty sure that where precisely to mount them will involve doing more of this right along the walls of this room.
 
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