Some Mixing Tips

Status
Not open for further replies.
Harvey I am going to print out those rules you just gave and put them right next to my mixing environment. Not only for me, but for the bands that I mix so that they can get some idea of how mixing down works. That is one of the best explanations I could ever think of. I might omit that keeping people happy thing though. I think too often pride gets in the way of a good mix and I wish I had enough clout to make them realize that.

Ok you have been recording and mixing for a very long time. Do you ever just want to slap some guy that wants his guitar to be the loudest and most overpowering thing in the mix because he has some chip on his shoulder?? I would think because you are older and more experienced someone would listen to you without much argument. Is that the case?

I think drummers are easiest to get along with!!
(I am a drummer) :)

Beezoboy
 
Beezoboy said:
Ok you have been recording and mixing for a very long time. Do you ever just want to slap some guy that wants his guitar to be the loudest and most overpowering thing in the mix because he has some chip on his shoulder?? I would think because you are older and more experienced someone would listen to you without much argument. Is that the case?
Beezoboy
You'd think so, but it doesn't work that way in real life. Most guitarists (not all, but a lot of them) seem to want way more of themselves in the mix than other members of the group. I have my own theories about it; some are not happy in the group and want to use the recording as a showcase of their talents for other groups, or they are so focused on their part, they don't understand how it should contribute to the whole song. Either way, it's a problem.

When you mix for a major label, most of the time a group will not be present during mixdown. The mixer and producer are in charge of making those decisions. For three of the tracks on the new Slow Roosevelt album, the record company flew my son Alex (the Producer) out to L.A. to supervise the mixing of the tracks by Mixerman - none of the group was present for those mixes.
 
I can see the meeting with Pink Floyd now. First you would offer them cigars, then tell them how they are going to make it and everyone will love them, and then ask which one is Pink.

I kind of miss reading Sjoko's posts when he toured with Floyd, I wonder if hes ever gotten better, I heard he fell ill some time back.


Alan Parsons is like an idol to me, That must have been a cool time to be kicking back with him and Clapton. Does Alan really monitor with those B&W hi fi speakers. I heard he also uses Phase Linear for a referece amp?
 
Well, that's pretty unlikely, since I don't smoke cigars, and they had already "made it", without any help from me.

I had only met Eric a couple of times before, so I don't know why he singled me out to listen to the Band's stuff with him. But it was a lot of fun.

At the time, I don't remember it being B&W speakers (which weren't around during the late 60s, early 70s); it was just a nice hi-fi system, as I recall.
 
Harvey, some of Eric's bandmates such as Carl Radle were from Tulsa and he visited back in the day.

A friend of mine knew these guys and has an Eric Clapton story. He was a guitar teacher for many years. He told Eric how kids wanted to learn to play like Jimi but he couldn't teach them the songs. He finally theorized that Hendrix's guitar was never in tune so it'd be hard to teach that. Eric told the guy that he picked up Jimi's guitar once and it was totally out of tune. Jimi came in and grabbed it from Eric and it sounded great when Jimi played it.

Did you ever work with Carl Radle?

_________

Steve
www.piemusic.com
 
I had one of Hendix's Strats for a while and I hated it, but I don't remember it having any bigger tuning problems than any other Strat from that period.

The action was a little high for my tastes and after screwing with it for a week os so, I finally got it to where it felt good to me. He used heavier strings than I did, so going to lighter strings (Ernie Ball Super Slinkeys) made it easier for me, but I couldn't get used to the controls sticking me in the arm pit.

I never met Carl. Other than Eric, who I only met a few times, I knew Buddy Miles, not from Band Of Gypsies, but from Michael Bloomfield's group, The Electric Flag.
 
Harvey,

Once again, thank you. I've copied and posted these comments to my archives.

What is kind of cool, is that I've already come to realize some of these things on my own.

For example, the comments on getting away from the song for a while. It is amazing to me how much wrong I hear with a mix when I come back to it, although it sounded alright the day before.

Mixing is fun. Small adjustments can bring about monumental improvement in the overall quality of the song.

Taylor
 
Harvey Gerst said:
I had one of Hendix's Strats for a while and I hated it...
I think I recall you saying one time that he kind of fell in love one of your guitars, a custom built acoustic that you designed if I recall correctly. Something about him refusing to give it back to you for a while. Was that when you had his axe?

Taylor
 
Harvey:

Thanks for sharing your stories with us. ALan Parson is my idol, too.

Question, Dark Side of the Moon was known for placing everyone in their own space, and from what I have read, that's a London style, where they have layers of sound in the mix. The book didn't cover exactually how they created the "layers". Can you please roughly define what layers might have meant? Different distance created by reverb/delay maybe?

AL
 
mixing

Great advice for the homerecker about mixing!!!

Harvey, can I suggest, post it in the mixing forum (or it you like, I'll go there and provide a link to this thread)?
 
Harvey Gerst said:
I had one of Hendix's Strats for a while and I hated it, but I don't remember it having any bigger tuning problems than any other Strat from that period.

The action was a little high for my tastes and after screwing with it for a week os so, I finally got it to where it felt good to me. He used heavier strings than I did, so going to lighter strings (Ernie Ball Super Slinkeys) made it easier for me, but I couldn't get used to the controls sticking me in the arm pit.

I never met Carl. Other than Eric, who I only met a few times, I knew Buddy Miles, not from Band Of Gypsies, but from Michael Bloomfield's group, The Electric Flag.

My writing partner kept forcing Al Kooper's book on me. I liked the parts about Michael Bloomfield and Lynyrd Skynyrd the best.

When I was young, I took guitar lessons from a gentleman named Eldon Shamblin. You probably didn't know Eldon but he's in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame with the Texas Playboys. Eldon loved to tell stories about Bob Wills, Gene Autry, Merle Haggard, JJ Cale and everybody else he knew. Eldon shared these stories with his friends but never shared them any writers and didn't write them down himself. Harvey, please write a book or put a section up on your website. In telling a story about all these people you've known over the years, you'll tell a nice story about yourself.
 
Thats wild about the teachers, I had 2 that had made it one was Jon Butcher from the Jon Buchr Axis. and the other one was Sonny Kenner. Both were big at one time and I was lucky enough that they were teaching in the area.:cool:
 
Hey ozraves,

Hello there,neighbor.It is good to see someone else from Oklahoma on the board!
 
Just ten more okies and we will have a full set of teeth.


I used to work in Midwest city, and Broken Arrow as an engineer for RMS systems.:D
 
Some thoughts about "better", "best" and Mic Recommendations

Hey Harvey,
I know that you are obviously a very knowledgeable guy and are well respected by the other members of this group but I think it's very easy for you to say, "it's YOUR responsibility to decide what mic to use for what purpose, etc." when you've accumulated a vast resource of knowledge from years of experience etc. and you forget what it's like when you first start off and are trying to figure out the difference between condenser, tube and every other bit of hardware that's available to you today and also trying to learn the ins and outs of recording, effects, and other gear- it can all be a bit overwhelming. There is only so much you can learn by scouring user groups, reviews, music stores until you collapse with all of the stuff short circuiting in your head. I know that beginners are lucky to have people around like you at the touch of a keyboard which is more of a reason to have respect for our older members who had to pound the pavement only 10 or 15 years ago to learn this stuff but it's very easy for the senior members to give a thread like this five stars because they are sick of the same questions over and over again and fail to see the other side. If someone gave you a general situation(what was being miced, what gender, what instruments, what genre) I don't think it is that hard to give a suggestion. Be sure I won't ask any question until I've researched it but c'mon- you can only do some much of this stuff before you ask for someone else's opinion from there experience- which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing.
 
Johnnynoony,

Part of the dilemma is the existance of so many variables. While there might be some very broad and general guidelines to go by, in reference to what kinds of mics work the best for certain sources, these aren't absolutes.

There are just too many things that can have a bearing on the situation, such as room acoustics, variations in instruments, variations in vocalist, variations in signal chains, variations in the recording media that we all use, just to name a few.

I think the point Harvey was making, (please correct me if I'm wrong Harvey) is that sometimes, newbies are looking for someone to tell them the answer to a question that they, and they alone, can answer.

Sometimes you have to listen, and make your own decisions. If Harvey or another experienced engineer were in your room, they could give a critical listen and maybe give you their opinion. But in this venue, asking them for an opinion of what sounds best with your setup, at any given moment, is really asking too much.

Plus, it really is beneficial to start learning to listen critically, and make those decisions yourself. Recording is like everything else in life. The more you exercise, the stronger you get. Sometimes, the canned answer isn't the right answer. Sometimes the 57 will work better on a certain vocalist than your nice large diaphragm condensor. Listen for yourself, and see if that's the case.

Taylor
 
Hey Taylor,
Thanks for your reply. I think recording like any science(mathematics, etc.) has endless variables, so one formula isn't going to fit your particular situation. I don't think any newbie or intermediate or whatever is looking for the definitive answer on the all in one "super" mic that records perfectly in any situation- anywhere- that's a pipe dream. I think people who start out are looking for a little direction from real people- not magazine reviewers, not sales people, etc. who honestly are just blowing smoke up your arse- I mean people who actually seem to have an interest in you buying the right thing. I'm also not saying Taylor that I want someone to come and do my work for me, like I said in the last post you can listen and read and blahblahblah till your blue in the face and you have a guy at a million music stores that say, "Chief this is the one for you- it's the top" But I guess anyone who calls you Chief you have to watch out for anyway but as much as you might know this stuff you HAVE to understand our dilemna. I'm not saying I need to be craddled like a little baby that needs another pull from my mother's breast but c'mon- give this guy a nipple. Sorry- I'll stop.
 
Johnny,

I think you have me confused with somebody else. The bulk of my posts here have been about what mics work well for what stuff, how to use the mics, and a little thread on how they work. I've got a ton of pictures posted here that I've created to illustrate a particular technique, or at least show people some starting placements.

I don't think I've ever made a mic recommendation here without mentioning exactly what things I think a particular mic might work best with, and what it probably wouldn't work well for.

This particular thread wasn't aimed at the absolutely newest recordist, it was really directed at people who have read the big thread, now have a few good mics, but still agonize over which to use when.

I think if you'll do a search on my posts, for the most part, they deal with exactly the information you seem to be seeking.

10 or 15 years of experience? I wish!!! :D
 
Hey.....Harvey......What's up man......Interesting insights you have........nothing mind shattering but you definately express some things that I think I need to constantly reinforce to myself........So it's always good to read stuff like that again to refresh my memory and remind me of the mind set that I need to maintain to do this recording/mixing stuff.........So thanks for the inspiration........


BTW, I have been at this site for awhile but for whatever reason I spend little time in this forum and I think that I probably will start to spend a little more time here......I'm gonna do a search myself for this infamous "big thread" right now :D


Anyway, thanks man.......and keep posting.......It's not just good for newbies but also people like me who need to have certain ideas reinforced everynow & then.....It's good information and good inspiration....thanks again...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top