Setting levels using pink noise

What a complete and utter waste of time and effort. It is flawed in so many ways. Loads of genres of music do NOT have equal amounts of energy at every frequency. The logarithmic way music works means that the bass part fills a big chunk of the spectrum, while others fill small spaces. The mix he got was the kind of rough mix anyone familiar with studios could do in just a few seconds with real faders, or a little longer with a mouse. It's pure luck. I also smiled to see his pink noise had more energy at the bass end and spikes all over the place - funny kind of pink noise. if you have the pink noise off, and look at the full band you could raise the faders to an imaginary pink noise line in exactly the same way. It's one of those solutions to a problem that doesn't exist. We all have our own way of mixing - for me, it's balancing the drums first, then perhaps grouping those up to one fader for the real mix - then adding the guts of the track, then the vocals, then revisiting everything. Other people do it wildly differently. Sitting there for umpteen versions of 3 minutes of hiss would kill me. Loud hiss is VERY tiring.

Standing on one leg, raising an arm and blocking one ear works nearly as well - but I don't do that either. Mixing is to do with balance and the music - whatever it is - death metal or jazz, opera or world music. I'm going to file this with speaker cables with directional capabilities - the big round filing cabinet.
 
Hm an emotionally charged topic I guess. . .

Anyway, could be useful if you don't have a lot of experience finding a balance I think. When I was starting out it was hard gauging the loudness of different sources in different octaves. Still have trouble sometimes!

I was surprised to find this soundonsound article about it, I guess this idea's been around for some time. Mixing To A Pink Noise Reference |
 
I haven't seen the video (and I won't) but I did read the SOS article and I do use a pink noise reference to get an initial balance quickly and with headroom. It only takes a few seconds on core tracks (drums, bass, keys, guitar), not 3 minutes. It is by no means and not intended to be a final mix balance.

It works for me, but I'm just a hobbyist. Maybe if I were a pro, I would find this an emotionally charged topic...
 
Geek stuff to impress impressionable geeks.

If you can hear music, you can mix music.

The degree of how 'well' you can hear music will determine to some degree how well you can mix. (provided you also know your tools)

Hence there are those producers and engineers who are said to have "golden ears"

But in the end, we listen to the tunes, and therefore should mix using good old fashioned 'ear technology'.

But this is just one man's opinion. :)
Yours may vary.

:D
 
I guess my first question is, is there a standard "pink noise"? Wouldn't it be at all possible for MY pink noise reference to have much more/less bass than YOUR pink noise reference? I just can't imagine all pink noise tracks to sound the same in those frequency regions. Unless, of course, I just don't understand something about those types of sounds.

In any case, his mix was pretty darn good for not using his ears in the typical manner. After you compress, EQ, reverb it all, you would have to go back in again and adjust in finer detail...which brings it back to: maybe it's easier to just do it yourself...? The only reason I say that is, again, because you do have to go back in and move things around, possibly a few db's, after compression and effects. And I think most of us can get it right within a few db's to being with.

Anyway, thanks for the vid. That was pretty cool. :thumbs up:
 
Pink noise is pretty standard...same like a 1 kHz sine wave.

There's been other mixing "tricks"...like the guys who use a VU meter (or VU meter plug) to set track levels for a mix.
If I recall it was initially used to set the levels between kick and bass (the bass is set 3 dBVU higher than the kick)...but I think it's been expanded by some for use on their whole mix.



It's OK I guess for some people who need that first-step on how to do these things...but it is a typical paint-by-numbers game, same as with the pink noise...and it can become a crutch...because you may feel comfortable always using blue #5 to paint your sky, since that's how you learned.
The concern is that you learn not to listen to the mix...rather you're just listening to match a preexisting reference. IOW...it becomes a crutch, even subconsciously, and leaves you second guessing anything different you might consider doing.
 
Pink noise is basically white noise that drops off by -3dB an octave. So it shouldn't vary between sources (statistically anyway, since the samples are randomized.)

I'm surprised by some of the snark here! Off the wall ideas like this are fun, especially when there's a good demonstration.
 
You said you laughed at the idea too initially. ;)

Nothing wrong with messing around with the concept.
I actually checked out the VU meter thing for kick and bass awhile ago...and as it turned out, my mix levels were set just right, as verified by the VU meter thing....so I realized have little reason to use that technique.

I'm just saying that it's somewhat of a sideshow that can indirectly lead you to a cookie-cutter approach, and instead of really listening, you end up just following that formulas.
Not meaning YOU when I say "you"...but there are a lot of newbs who like to latch on to "formulas" because they create a comfort zones...and then it's hard for them to break clean of that. The DAW already has a lot of people mixing with their eyes...and they don't even realize they are doing it.
 
The DAW already has a lot of people mixing with their eyes...and they don't even realize they are doing it.

Thats an interesting point Miro brought up.

Not too long ago I was with a freind that I used to record with. Old school, before DAWs.
He's now totally ITB and lamented how much he missed mixing by ear and now spends his time staring at a computer screen.
For one that has never had any experience other than a DAW, they have no idea what that's like. Mixing by ear instead of sight.

As technology advances there are more and more 'methods', 'tricks', 'presets', etc that all take us further from relying on our ears.
As in the body, if you don't use a certain muscle, it deteriorates.

Skills get lost, while there is an increased reliance on 'tools and tricks'.

One just needs to look at how few people have excellent handwriting or printing skills.

But they can text like an MFer Lol.?

I'm not saying the technology is bad, just saying to develop and trust your own skills more.

Use it or lose it.
:D
 
I'm surprised by some of the snark here! Off the wall ideas like this are fun, especially when there's a good demonstration.

Snark? And you're suprised? What did you think, that everyone would just freely embrace your discovery you were sharing? :)

Sorry, but this is real world. Different people are gonna have different ideas than your own.
:D
 
For a beginner it might be useful to reference pink noise. It has sort of the same frequency-energy distribution of a full mix. But you could as easily compare your mix to a known good commercial mix. I like to do that just to calibrate my ear to a system, so I don't incorporate into the mix too much compensation for the sound of the monitoring system (relative to my home system that I'm so used to). And a reference song will tell you things about the tone balance of specific instruments that pink noise can't.
 
Just some facts I dug up using google. Thought it was interesting.

"Pink noise has a spectral envelope that is not flat within a frequency but rolls off at higher frequencies. Pink noise has a greater relative proportion of low frequency energy than white noise and sounds less “hissy.”

For the human auditory system - which processes frequencies logarithmically - pink noise is supposed to sound even across all frequencies, and therefore best approximates the average spectral distribution of music.

In practice though, it turns out that our ears are more sensitive to certain frequencies, such as in the 2–4 kHz range. Pink noise, despite of its even frequency distribution in the logarithmic frequency scale, will therefore be perceived as colored, with a prominent peak perceived around 3 kHz. Flattening a noise in a perceptual way, will generate grey noise
Applications

In audio applications, pink noise is used as a reference tone to check frequency responses and becomes particularly useful when coupled with a 1/3 octave spectrum analyzer.

This type of analyzer operates with a constant percentage bandwidth, which means that the bandwidth of its filters gets wider toward the high frequencies. As the filters get wider, the power of the source signal should decrease, to keep the readings correct, hence, the use of pink noise. If your spectrum analyzer does operate on a constant bandwidth (not a constant percentage), use white noise instead.

Pink noise can be used to measure the adverse effects of room modes as well, although a low frequency sine sweep will be better for such a purpose.

In healthcare applications, pink noise is used to treat hyperacusis, an increased sensitivity to normal environmental sounds, or to mask tinnitus, a ringing in your ear occurring without any stimulus."
 
Meh. If it helps some people, fine. However, I don't think I'd save any time getting basic levels this way compared to just setting each track at an arbitrary level, listening then adjusting by ear. Oh, and I'd probably bus some things as appropriate. For example, early on I put each drum mic onto a bus, balance them how I want, then use the bus track to set the balance with the rest of the mix. The same can work with things like backing vocals etc.
 
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