Question on Daw compressors

Absolutepower

New member
I have a question about built in Daw compressors, free plugin ones, and anything else that's considered very low end. Is it possible to get good or great results with these? I remember trying repeatedly to use the built in one with garageband, and it seemed every setting I put it on made the track much worse. Like for example how about the built in Reaper compressor. My issue is one of three possible things.
1. I just don't know what the hell I'm doing and I should be able to get good results even from a low end compressor.
2. The compressors I'm trying are just inherently bad, and no setting will sound good.
3. Maybe my recordings just don't call for the use of a compressor at all so I need not worry about it?

btw, I am not trying to ask what settings I should use. I realize that's a ridiculous question.
 
I can with certainty say that 1 is the primary cause. Rather than leaving it at that, I'd ask you: what are you using a compressor for? What about your recordings are you attempting to fix/enhance?
 
I have a question about built in Daw compressors, free plugin ones, and anything else that's considered very low end. Is it possible to get good or great results with these? I remember trying repeatedly to use the built in one with garageband, and it seemed every setting I put it on made the track much worse. Like for example how about the built in Reaper compressor. My issue is one of three possible things.
1. I just don't know what the hell I'm doing and I should be able to get good results even from a low end compressor.
2. The compressors I'm trying are just inherently bad, and no setting will sound good.
3. Maybe my recordings just don't call for the use of a compressor at all so I need not worry about it?

btw, I am not trying to ask what settings I should use. I realize that's a ridiculous question.

1) Not impossible
2) actually most of the DAW free compressors do clean compression (ie not analog emulations) very well
3) possible but IMO unlikely unless you are doing Classical or Jazz or you are looking to make a record that doesn't have the same kind of sound as anything made, popular music wise, in the last 40 years or so

the thing about any FX is you kind of have to have an idea of what you want to accomplish by using it before you start applying or you are basically stabbing in the dark and hoping for a lucky hit

with compression in particular what is your goal?
taming peaks, enhancing the punch, enhancing ambience, leveling the track and so on. depending on the source a compressor could be the right choice or the wrong choice to achieve those goals. Vocal leveling for example is usually more natural sounding IME/IMO if the bulk of the work is done by fader rides, unless you have a singer with superhuman control

figure out what your goal is for the track, think about how a compressor works and if it is the right tool for the job and then start messing with the controls to see how you get the sound you want.

Oh and do a lot of level matched AB listening tests with the uneffected material to make sure the compressor is moving you in the right direction

As always YMMV
 
I have a question about built in Daw compressors, free plugin ones, and anything else that's considered very low end. Is it possible to get good or great results with these? I remember trying repeatedly to use the built in one with garageband, and it seemed every setting I put it on made the track much worse. Like for example how about the built in Reaper compressor. My issue is one of three possible things.
1. I just don't know what the hell I'm doing and I should be able to get good results even from a low end compressor.
2. The compressors I'm trying are just inherently bad, and no setting will sound good.
3. Maybe my recordings just don't call for the use of a compressor at all so I need not worry about it?

btw, I am not trying to ask what settings I should use. I realize that's a ridiculous question.

Sounds like you need to take some time and experiment, learn how to correctly use compressors. Decide if you even need to use a compressor. Adding one to the vocals just because it is the "norm" isn't a good way to do things. As Steve Henningsgard said, "Decide what you are attempting to fix/enhance."After adding a compressor to your chain you should not be able to notice it unless you are going for a pumping effect. Some compressors are made to color the sound but the same rules apply there as well.
 
Great, that's actually awesome news, because it means the problem is with me and I can still get some results without draining $ away for now. (it makes me curious if the same is true for reverb). As far as the vocal leveling, I'm going to try to do that with the fader ride option as you said, because I think that would be more natural and a better place to start from. I just figured out how to do that actually on my DAW, but when you're configuring the dynamics, I've found you really need to start with a fresh set of ears or else the result will be as warped as your sense of perception was at the time. Louds and softs will seem different depending on how sensitive you are to the various frequencies at that time.

Anyways, once I get the dynamics leveled off that way I'll give it another go with the compressor. That's also a good question about what effect I'm trying to go for. The problem is I don't know other than getting it to sound a bit more like the great commercial recordings of the past 50 years. I'm still not sure exactly what that entails. And also I will definitely take your advice on the a/b testing, considering probably 99/100 settings I try will make it sound worse since I'm on the learning curve.

Thanks
 
I have found the Reaper ReaComp to be a nice compressor, but it does darken/warm the sound a bit, so it is not transparent. The ReaXComp has level compensation, and also is multi-band, which allows you to shape the sound somewhat. It is fairly transparent if you don't vary the multi-band settings between bands.
 
That's also a good question about what effect I'm trying to go for. The problem is I don't know other than getting it to sound a bit more like the great commercial recordings of the past 50 years. I'm still not sure exactly what that entails

This is probably worth thinking more about before you even start messing with FX of any kind. What is your natural style? how do you enhance it, does it fit with what you are trying to achieve.

for example if you are trying to make a really mellow, ambient sounding vocal track but have a very aggressive vocal style that is full of punch and dynamics. you could use a fast attack, low threshold on a compressor to try and compress the hell out of the transients/punch on the vocal and make more of an ambient sound, but in the end this will sound like an aggressive vocal that has been compressed to hell and probably sound like sh!t
Much better to say "I'm trying to make a really ambient, melow vocal, I need to adjust my style and mic technique accordingly". once you record it appropriately for the end result you are trying to achieve, then you can use FX like compression, EQ, Filters, etc to enhance and bring out the recorded sound and make it slightly more than it was in real life

Generally speaking:
appropriately tracked material + well chosen effects leads to good sound
inappropriately tracked material + trying to force it to be something it isn't with massive over use of effects leads to poor results

There are some instances where you will want to over FX something to get a weird, unnatural effect because that is what the song calls for, but generally speaking the above will hold true.

Ultimately it comes down to the performance, get that as good as you can, as close to the desired end result as possible, and then try not to screw it up in the mix. It took me 3 years of trying to fix things in the mix before I realized that getting excited about the chance to use tons of compression, EQ, Reverb, tuning was actually the wrong approach and I'd be better off trying to get the performance and recording part of things better if I wanted the end result to sound better

As always YMMV
 
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You guys have a good point. Not going to be as helpful to look at examples of other people's settings, I just need to experiment more.
 
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The best thing you can do is experiment. Try strapping a compressor on your mix bus and just sit there and tweak with the settings until you can hear something happening. Lots of knobs, lots of learning, use your ears!
 
Ok here's the frustrating thing. I UNDERSTAND what all the basic functions on the compressor do in theory! I've read a zillion different articles saying the same thing. My question is what that hell does that actually sound like. I don't know what "sucking" and "pumping" are or any other things.
What I need is some real life specific examples. Like what kind of compression was done for "you can't always get what you want" by the Stones? Or Under the Bridge by Chili Peppers. Those are just 2 random examples, but What I need is to be able to relate the information to real life sound.

What kind of compression was done? Exactly what the engineer believed needed to be done to enhance the track. You can't hear the compressors working because he/she used them correctly. It is supposed to enhance the sound and still sound natural unless you are going for a specific effect.

I believe you've only hit the tip of the iceberg in you compressor research, so to speak. Keep on researching and experimenting and one day it will click and you'll say "Oh, I get it now."
 
Ok here's the frustrating thing. I UNDERSTAND what all the basic functions on the compressor do in theory! I've read a zillion different articles saying the same thing. My question is what that hell does that actually sound like. I don't know what "sucking" and "pumping" are or any other things.
What I need is some real life specific examples. Like what kind of compression was done for "you can't always get what you want" by the Stones? Or Under the Bridge by Chili Peppers. Those are just 2 random examples, but What I need is to be able to relate the information to real life sound.

I don't know about those specific songs but see if this helps

The attached file (bass example) is a bass note looped, and I've used some extreme settings to make it obvious, and it was all done on Reapers built in compressor

first time it plays there is no effect its just the recorded note

Second time it plays is an example of what I would call using compression to get "Punch", the compressor is set fairly slow to let the transient through but then clamps down hard on the tail of the note so the attack of the bass note is now much more emphasised than the decay

Third time it plays is what I think of as "pumping/breathing". The release is set so fast so you can actually hear the compressor let go and the note volume snap back with a bow-wow kind of effect

I may have interpreted the slang wrong, who knows with such subjective audioterms?

there's also a snapshot of the wave form which might help you visualize what the compressor is doing to the sound

As always YMMV
View attachment bass exmple.mp3
 

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  • Bass wave 3.jpg
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Ok here's the frustrating thing. I UNDERSTAND what all the basic functions on the compressor do in theory! I've read a zillion different articles saying the same thing. My question is what that hell does that actually sound like. I don't know what "sucking" and "pumping" are or any other things.

That's where just messing with the controls come in. The release control has a lot to do with it.

What I need is some real life specific examples. Like what kind of compression was done for "you can't always get what you want" by the Stones? Or Under the Bridge by Chili Peppers. Those are just 2 random examples, but What I need is to be able to relate the information to real life sound.

That would be of limited benefit. The end result is due to an interaction between the original signal and the compressor. Since we never really hear the original unaltered tracks there's no way to correlate an outcome with any particular compressor settings. If your vocal track isn't pretty much just like Mick Jagger's then the settings used on him won't sound the same.
 
Ok, sorry for the previous outburst, just a little frustration. I actually did some work earlier today and was able to find a way to improve my recording rather than make it worse. The only setting I found so far that worked is threshold all the way down, and 3.3:1 to about 5:1 ratio setting. Attack and release are somewhere in the middle.
Here's the mix that I did. Any comments are appreciated, even if its harsh.:eek:I'm planning on re-recording this whole song soon, so everything that went wrong in tracking can be fixed next time around.

Creatures Electric by alcoyot on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
 
That would be of limited benefit. The end result is due to an interaction between the original signal and the compressor. Since we never really hear the original unaltered tracks there's no way to correlate an outcome with any particular compressor settings. If your vocal track isn't pretty much just like Mick Jagger's then the settings used on him won't sound the same.

That's true and that answer tells me a lot right there. I guess I should rephrase this and say it would be most useful to hear the before track, and then see what the compressor's settings were to get it to reach the final stage. I still would love to see what the settings were, even if I had no clue what it originally sounded like, as I'm sure many people here would.
 
Ok, sorry for the previous outburst, just a little frustration. I actually did some work earlier today and was able to find a way to improve my recording rather than make it worse. The only setting I found so far that worked is threshold all the way down, and 3.3:1 to about 5:1 ratio setting. Attack and release are somewhere in the middle.
Here's the mix that I did. Any comments are appreciated, even if its harsh.:eek:I'm planning on re-recording this whole song soon, so everything that went wrong in tracking can be fixed next time around.

Creatures Electric by alcoyot on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Threshold all the way down??? like at 0 or -40 (whatever the lowest setting is). If it's at 0 you're probably not compressing anything at all. If it's all the way the other way, you're compressing everything.

What is being compressed on that track? The vocals?

Again, heavy compression can sound good, and light compression can sound good and both can be improvements. However, if your threshold is all the way to 0 you're not compressing anything so it's not doing anything, if it's all the way minus, I can't imagine that would sound good on much.
 
Threshold all the way down??? like at 0 or -40 (whatever the lowest setting is). If it's at 0 you're probably not compressing anything at all. If it's all the way the other way, you're compressing everything.

What is being compressed on that track? The vocals?

Again, heavy compression can sound good, and light compression can sound good and both can be improvements. However, if your threshold is all the way to 0 you're not compressing anything so it's not doing anything, if it's all the way minus, I can't imagine that would sound good on much.

Yes the vocals. If the threshold is all the way down everything is being compressed no? Because everything above where the threshold is set gets compressed. Is there anything wrong with that?
 
Ok I guess I don't understand what you mean by "threshold all the way down". You have a number (ie -24, -12)?

That is correct, everything over that number is compressed everything under that threshold is left alone. I thought by all the way down you had it at like -40 or something where pretty much everything is going to be compressed.

What compressor are you using? Any "program dependent" like an 1176 or copy doesn't have an threshold where you can pick the number, it has an input knob you just turn until you hear it kick in. Most others will actually have a number.
 
Ok I guess I don't understand what you mean by "threshold all the way down". You have a number (ie -24, -12)?

That is correct, everything over that number is compressed everything under that threshold is left alone. I thought by all the way down you had it at like -40 or something where pretty much everything is going to be compressed.

What compressor are you using? Any "program dependent" like an 1176 or copy doesn't have an threshold where you can pick the number, it has an input knob you just turn until you hear it kick in. Most others will actually have a number.

Yes that's exactly right. Right now I have it down at -40 so that everything is compressed. The 2 programs I use are garageband and reaper. I've tried it at a higher threshold where it only affects the peaks and that didn't sound good, it kind of ruined the dynamic of the peaks. Then I tried it at about halfway point where half the sound was being compressed. That also ruined it and made it sound worse. And this is the best result I've gotten so far with everything being compressed. I'm going to work on it some more in a few minutes. Thanks for the help, any further thoughts?
 
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