Question on Daw compressors

Yes that's exactly right. Right now I have it down at -40 so that everything is compressed. The 2 programs I use are garageband and reaper. I've tried it at a higher threshold where it only affects the peaks and that didn't sound good, it kind of ruined the dynamic of the peaks. Then I tried it at about halfway point where half the sound was being compressed. That also ruined it and made it sound worse. And this is the best result I've gotten so far with everything being compressed. I'm going to work on it some more in a few minutes. Thanks for the help, any further thoughts?
Yeah. That's fairly ...odd. (-40 and all.
 
Compression is one thing where simply playing without understanding what the various controls do can often leave you more confused than when you started.

The best basic explanation I've found of compression (and dynamics processing in general) is the good ol' Rane Notes.

Have a look HERE, particularly at chapters 1 and 2 (but work through the lot if you can). Then the experimenting should be far more productive.

Bob
 
Compression is one thing where simply playing without understanding what the various controls do can often leave you more confused than when you started.

The best basic explanation I've found of compression (and dynamics processing in general) is the good ol' Rane Notes.

Have a look HERE, particularly at chapters 1 and 2 (but work through the lot if you can). Then the experimenting should be far more productive.

Bob

Thanks for the link, I haven't seen this one before and it looks more detailed than most guides. I have it bookmarked and will read the whole thing.
 
Ok after messing with it some more, I've come to the same conclusion that the best sound comes from threshold all the way down so that the whole sound is compressed. I know that's not a technique most people use but it seems to be working so I'm going to go with it for now. I'm using a 4/1 ratio with attack right in the middle. I'm going to pick up the waves PIE compressor which is going for 100$ right now, and it came highly recommended to me by someone. I'll see what happens then.
 
Hmm. -40 and compressing everything is not typical because it's not really what a compressor is for usually.

Here's a simple way to set a compressor and get to know how the different knobs work: 1) SET THRESHOLD - set attack and release as fast as they'll go, set ratio super high (10:1-20:1) move threshold from 0 down until you hear it kicking on and off (this will sound awful). Pick the place you want it to kick in and leave the threshold there (probably not -40). 2) SET ATTACK - this will control how long after the threshold is hit the compression kicks in. Longer times let more of the transient through so there is more rhythm to the track. As you move the attack around you should here a pretty significant difference. 3) SET RELEASE - this will control how long the compression stays on. Short times and the compression will RELEASE quickly, longer times will create more sustain. Play with it to find out how it sounds. 4) SET RATIO - simple, just lower the ratio until it sounds good (up to this point it will likely sound awful). Now your compressor is set and you have dynamics controlled with THRESHOLD and RATIO, a rhythm set with ATTACK, and sustain with RELEASE.

This is one way to do it and you should learn a lot about how a compressor works and how each knob interacts from this method. For choppy rhythm guitars set a semi slow attack (ie 50 or more ms), middle range release (120 ms) and 4:1 ratio is a good place to start. For vocals I usually use a really fast attack and release to control dynamics and low ratio (3:1 or less). For snare a slow attack allows more of the crack to come through. So as you can see from this short list the settings vary wildly depending on the source and goal. In general slowish attack allows more transient through so you get a rhythmic sound, fast release controls dynamics quickly and tames peaks...Slow release provides sustain, fast release can add to the rhythm of just tame peaks...threshold and ratio play it by ear.

Good luck, compression can be tricky and takes some time to really figure it out. For years my compression did more harm than good. Now that I know how to use a compressor it is a wonderful tool.
 
Hmm. -40 and compressing everything is not typical because it's not really what a compressor is for usually.

Here's a simple way to set a compressor and get to know how the different knobs work: 1) SET THRESHOLD - set attack and release as fast as they'll go, set ratio super high (10:1-20:1) move threshold from 0 down until you hear it kicking on and off (this will sound awful). Pick the place you want it to kick in and leave the threshold there (probably not -40). 2) SET ATTACK - this will control how long after the threshold is hit the compression kicks in. Longer times let more of the transient through so there is more rhythm to the track. As you move the attack around you should here a pretty significant difference. 3) SET RELEASE - this will control how long the compression stays on. Short times and the compression will RELEASE quickly, longer times will create more sustain. Play with it to find out how it sounds. 4) SET RATIO - simple, just lower the ratio until it sounds good (up to this point it will likely sound awful). Now your compressor is set and you have dynamics controlled with THRESHOLD and RATIO, a rhythm set with ATTACK, and sustain with RELEASE.

This is one way to do it and you should learn a lot about how a compressor works and how each knob interacts from this method. For choppy rhythm guitars set a semi slow attack (ie 50 or more ms), middle range release (120 ms) and 4:1 ratio is a good place to start. For vocals I usually use a really fast attack and release to control dynamics and low ratio (3:1 or less). For snare a slow attack allows more of the crack to come through. So as you can see from this short list the settings vary wildly depending on the source and goal. In general slowish attack allows more transient through so you get a rhythmic sound, fast release controls dynamics quickly and tames peaks...Slow release provides sustain, fast release can add to the rhythm of just tame peaks...threshold and ratio play it by ear.

Good luck, compression can be tricky and takes some time to really figure it out. For years my compression did more harm than good. Now that I know how to use a compressor it is a wonderful tool.

Wow thanks, I just tried this and I was able to get a better result with threshold at about -10. I also found ratio at 2-3 as well just like you said. I think the big difference was that I put attack all the way down to 0.0 ms the fastest setting possible. This is definitely a breakthrough. I think one of the problems is I didn't get the vox right at tracking. This is the verse section, and I was trying to sing more softly for effect, but I overdid it and it ended up overly weak. What I need to do is go back and track the same verse with more power at the source (the performance). I've found that its 100x easier when things are solid from the getgo.
 
Nice. I enjoyed our tune. Aside from the topic I would like to download your tune.
As to the use of compression there are may tuts on the net. Let me take a minute t search Books on hand and local rescources. Gimme a minute.

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:48 ----------

Good reference: Rane Handbook, Mix engineeers handbook, Live sound (I think by yamaha or some other.). Remember that a COMPRESSOR is an amplifier that reduces gain as input is increases.
 
Fast attack are great for vocals. You can also add a super fast release to make it very natural and jus tame peaks. Also with that sort of compressor sometimes a higher ratio can sound good too. Normally I don't go above 3:1 on vocals but with my 1176 (ultra fast) I use 8:1 and 12:1 sometimes.
 
I may have interpreted the slang wrong, who knows with such subjective audioterms?

View attachment 66595

I would guess breathing would refer to hearing the effect on the program material itself. Pumping would refer to hearing the effect on another source in the same track--sort of like ducking, but hearing both sources affected. At least based on my readings over time. YMMV, indeed.
I watch a woodworking show on PBS. They have too long of a release on their compressor. Every time the hammer hits, the entire program almost mutes completely away for 2-3 seconds afterwards. They got pumped.
 
DukeCC. Glad you are not the only one who notices the affect (effect). It drives me crazy. GF has grown weary of my comments but now it drives her crazy!! to the OP a point: Squeeze like crazy, low threshold high ratio then adjust to your taste by first adjusting the ratio then you will hear the comp working. An old method is to time the release to the beat. Use 60,000/tempo that will give you a baseline. Use your ears first and foremost. Hope that helps. Be well All.
 
60,000/TEMPO? I've never come across that. That would mean a song with 120bpm would use 500ms as the release? I understand this is a starting point, or a rule of thumb, and that what sounds right should be what's used, but 500ms seems really high for a lot of things.

I think it really depends on the source and song more than a rule of thumb. For fast vocals, 500ms is going to kill the dynamics. For fast drums it will too. For something smoother, 500ms might be pretty good.

I don't know, I've never seen this rule, but who knows maybe it is some place to start.
 
This formula simply will give you the number of miliseconds that equal one beat at your specific tempo.
It may be appropriate as a starting point for release time as much as any arbitrary number may be. I'd say that even if you are looking for a rhythmic type of compression even this would not be the right "formula" to use since even if you were using it, for example, on a MIDI kick drum that hits once per beat exactly quantized, the math doesn't take into account the attack time and the time that signal is already compressed before dropping back below the threshold. With this in mind, in the example of the once per beat kick drum. only the first hit would be right, after that the compressor would never fully disengage since the next hit would occur while the compressor was still releasing. since the actual time the you would need to consider would be attack time + time compressor is engaged + release time and if you have real live recorrded or unquantized/humanized MIDI/samples material, the drift on and off the exact beat make every hit less likely to be in the right place for a mathematically timed compression setting

That's another plus with HW comps over plugins. It's not going to give you a readout to the Milisecond or even fraction of a milisecond you just twiddle with the controls until it sounds right and don't get so hung up on the numbers which is also a good method with SW comps too IMO/IME

As always YMMV
 
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