Question about using a home theater sub-woofer with near-field monitors.

PTravel

Senior Senior Member
I have, for years, mixed with headphones and, not surprisingly, that hasn't produced the best results (complicated by the fact that I have 20% hearing loss in my right ear :)). I finally broke down and ordered a pair of KRK RP8G monitors. I'm also considering a sub-woofer, as the RP8Gs only go down to about 45 Hz, and one of my current projects has some very deep bass as an integral part of the music. Here's my question: is there any reason I can't use a home theater sub-woofer, instead of buying Yet One More Piece of Dedicated Gear? I have a decent HT sub-woofer that I'm not using. Given that bass that low is non-directional, I would assume placement is far more important than something specifically matched (or so say the manufacturers) to near-field monitors.

I write musical theater and record and mix to CD demos that may be played on anything from computers to car stereos to high-quality stereo systems -- the material is vocals, mixed solos and chorus, backed with either synthesizers (one active project -- the one that uses a lot of bass) or a traditional orchestra (another active project). I'm going to the near-field monitors primarily because I can't get an accurate sense of the stereo field from the headphones, and secondarily because the balance between the vocalists and the instruments changes dramatically from what I hear in the headphones to what I hear when played over speakers.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 
As a general rule, home theater subwoofers are better suited to reproducing movie sound effects than music.

Other concerns:

* You'll most likely need an external crossover to use the subwoofer with your monitors. The frequency response of the monitors and subwoofer shouldn't be allowed to overlap indiscriminately. The low end of the speakers' response should cut off at the same frequency as the subwoofer's high end.

* Some home theater subwoofers have a weird impedance that only matches whatever home theater system they were designed for.

* While placement is important, the main issue in designing subwoofers for music is getting them to reproduce low frequency signals accurately. As home theater subs are designed for movie sound effects, designers don't usually strive for that level of accuracy.
 
It all depends on the particular subwoofer in question and how you set it up. No sub will help you mix if its volume and polarity aren't matched to the main speakers. Even a mediocre sub might be an improvement if it's properly set up. You will definitely need a crossover of some sort. Some subs have crossovers built into them but not all crossovers are equal. If you tell us what sub you have we could determine what potential it has for you and what you'll have to do to make best use of it (which may be not using it at all).
 
is there any reason I can't use a home theater sub-woofer, instead of buying Yet One More Piece of Dedicated Gear?

As Boulder said, it depends entirely on the specific subwoofer. I have a killer SVS sub in my living room home theater, and it's fabulous for music and movies. If you think about it, most movies have lots of music! Maybe a really crappy sub gives more "boom" than pure tones, but a competent sub should sound fine with whatever you send it.

--Ethan
 
As Boulder said, it depends entirely on the specific subwoofer. I have a killer SVS sub in my living room home theater, and it's fabulous for music and movies. If you think about it, most movies have lots of music! Maybe a really crappy sub gives more "boom" than pure tones, but a competent sub should sound fine with whatever you send it.

--Ethan

Would the Sonodyne SLF 200A qualify as a competent sub in your opinion? My monitors are on their way in the mail, and I'm considering this sub as a supplement as I can get a good price on a used one.
 
Would the Sonodyne SLF 200A qualify as a competent sub in your opinion? My monitors are on their way in the mail, and I'm considering this sub as a supplement as I can get a good price on a used one.

That seems to have features that could make it go with a pro monitoring setup.
 
I think you may find that mixes that sound good on your subwoofer equipped system don't translate so well to other people's systems
(just like the difficulties you were having with your headphone mixes).

Controlling and getting an accurate representation of bass seems to me to be one of the more difficult aspects of home recording.

The amount of cost and effort in treating a room and then affording and placing FFR monitors in such a way that the mixes will translate
well to other systems is the stuff of dreams.

I think it can work if you have other systems to compare it on, this will set you up to where you can extrapolate what is happening
on your own system and use the knowledge gained to compensate your mixes for whatever might be "off."
 
I think you may find that mixes that sound good on your subwoofer equipped system don't translate so well to other people's systems
(just like the difficulties you were having with your headphone mixes).

Mixes made on a full range system translate to bandwidth limited systems better than the other way around. If a sub makes the mix wrong it would most likely be from having it too loud.
 
That makes sense, the dynamics are reduced as you reduce the bandwidth.

Thanks! :)

I've got a pretty weird monitoring system myself, a pair of NS-10M that I've had for 20 years, and a pair of Cerwin Vega 3-way (10" woofer) passive stereo speakers. I run them through a refurbished Sanusi AU-517 for power. The same system is my home stereo, my frfr system for my Axe FXII and my studio monitors.

I think I would like to upgrade to a pair of Adam A7x at some point, but they are pricey.
 
It took me a while to respond as I hadn't had time to look at my subwoofer. It's an Acoustic Research ARPR808 8", which you can see here: AR : Search : ARPR808. It's a pretty decent sub -- not at all "boomy."
 
got the same question

A friend of mine gave to me a teufel subwoofer as a present. it is part of a home theater sound system. It does have a Crossover built in. I'm working with Yamaha HS50M Monitors and a Tascam US-4x4 Interface. Now I am struggling to get everything connected and working together...
that's the manual for the sub

https://www.teufel.de/medien/bda-concept-e-alt-[pdf]-2515/vw_name-download.html

it's in German, unfortunately. Page 10 shows the back of the sub and all its connections.

Here you can get the manual for the interface:

Audio Recording Devices for Professionals and Hobbyists | Tascam Europe

and here the moniors:

http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=de&site=de.yamaha.com&asset_id=46679



I would greatly appreciate any kind of help!


Greetings from Germany and Merry Christmas!
 
A friend of mine gave to me a teufel subwoofer as a present. it is part of a home theater sound system. It does have a Crossover built in. I'm working with Yamaha HS50M Monitors and a Tascam US-4x4 Interface. Now I am struggling to get everything connected and working together...

It's a home theater sub designed to be used with passive speakers rather than with active monitors. There's no way to use the sub's crossover with those speakers. The speakers do roll off naturally around 55Hz but that's not the same as a proper crossover. There's no pass-through connection on the monitors, and if you did split the signal it would be stereo while you need a summed signal to drive the sub.

In other words, it's the wrong tool for the job. Making it all work together would take more time and effort than just earning the money to pay for the right tool.
 
Does it have a crossover?

No, but it does have a volume out.

I myself started with an old DCM home theater sub that I had sitting around. Was a 'free' choice at the time I was using 5" KRK's in a large room. Had the Mackie Big Knob to run to it. But eventually I realized that even in a well treated quite large room, the sub was just overbearing without control. Wrong sub for recording or listening...

I did buy a sub that was more appropriate for the situation at the time. Well, maybe not but it works...

BIC America - Top Rated Since 1973
 
Does it have a crossover?

I don't have the Big Knob, but I don't think you need a crossover if the sub has one. You can send to the active monitors and the sub at the same time. Don't connect speakers to the HF outs of the sub. The monitors will be full range, but the sub can complement the LF component instead of substitute.
 
No, but it does have a volume out.

Does it have a summed output? That sub seems to have a mono input. Maybe it can take a full range stereo input and put out LF, I don't know.

---------

Just checked the Bedienungsanleitung and it appears that there's a front panel stereo input. Not 100% sure but it looks like that would take the full range stereo, decode it and send it to all the outputs.
 
Thanks for the answers.

I know it's not designed to work the way I am trying to make it work but I think y figured it out...
I order myself two ¼" jack y-cables to connect my monitors and my sub both at Line-Out 1-2 of the interface to be able to adjust everything at the same time. Now I need to dial in the bass to make everything sound nice and even. Just have to wait for the adapters now...
 
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