Question About Getting Stereo Separation With Rhythm Guitar Tracks

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StrandedLegion

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There might not be a sufficient solution for this, but I thought I'd ask for some input. I have some old songs I recorded several years ago that I wanted to remix/remaster. When I recorded these songs, I did not double track the rhythm guitar. Now that I have learned more about mixing, I'm disappointed with the sound of these old songs, because I don't get stereo separation with my rhythm tracks like I have on my newer songs.

The hitch is, I have a back injury that's prohibiting me from playing guitar at this time. Consequently, I can't simply record another take, which is the optimum solution. I tried copying the original take into another track, and panning each track to either side. However, because they are the exact same take, the sound goes straight to the middle, just like if only had one track. I tried adding different EQ and reverb to each track to make them sound different, but the sound still comes out right down the middle.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can make these tracks more distinctive? Am I on the right track ( no pun intended ) with my EQ/reverb approach, but just need a different setting? Or, is there simply no way to achieve the desired result without double tracking? I understand that any sort of fix won't sound as good as double tracking, but I was hoping to at least find a temporary fix so I can work on the songs while I recuperate physically. Thank you for any advice you can offer.
 
Honestly, you're not going to get much out of it. The best thing you could really do in your situation is to copy the track like you've already done, but then nudge one of the tracks forward in time 7-20 ms. Basically enough to get out of the phase shift zone, but not shifting it enough that it sounds like a delay.

The only way you'll really get it to sound stereo is to double track it. Anything else is just a pseudo-stereo trick.

I think there's some plug-in from brainworx or plug-in alliance or something that turns mono into stereo tracks using some fancy stereo tricks, but again... It's not going to sound anything like it could if you could double it somehow (or have someone else double it for you).
 
It'll not going to give you the same effect as a true double track, but you can run one of the duplicated sides through an amp sim or re-amp it using more of a room mic and add a slight slapback and or chorus/modulation to one side. gl
 
StrandedLegion said:
Well, I have two tracks, and each one is panned hard to either side. The thing is, the two tracks aren't different recordings. I just copied the same recording into both tracks.
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That won't accomplish anything. It's still mono. Unless you nudge one, like Mr. Wenchey said, but even that isn't really stereo and rarely sounds great. But just copying one track and panning them is the exact same thing as simply turning up one track, it's only going to make the mono track stay mono and get louder.
 
StrandedLegion said:
The hitch is, I have a back injury that's prohibiting me from playing guitar at this time. Consequently, I can't simply record another take, which is the optimum solution.
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Do you know anyone else who might track the parts for you?
It really is the only foolproof solution.

RAMI said:
That won't accomplish anything. It's still mono. Unless you nudge one, like Mr. Wenchey said, but even that isn't really stereo and rarely sounds great. but just copying one track and panning them is the exact same thing as simply turning up one track, it's only going to make the mono track stay mono and get louder.
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big +1. That's literally the same as just having one track panned centre and then turning the fader up.
The moving/nudging lark is pretty much the same as using a chorus plugin. It'll always sound like a chorus plugin, or similar.
 
nudge one of the tracks around 25ms and pan them hard left and right, it will be a fake stereo but it works. Also check out the haas effect! it's a useful tool for this kind of thing. Alternatively you could just delete one of the two guitar tracks and put a very wide sounding chorus effect on it to fake the double track effect, I've never used it myself but there's a plug in by waves ADT that simulates double tracking with a mono source, it sounds good.
 
Thanks for the tips. I did as suggested, and nudged the right track 10ms ahead, and then ran it through an amp simulator. This gave me the effect I was looking for.

One interesting side note. I tried this on one song to see if it would work (and it did). This particular song has basically two sections: Part A @ 90bpm, and Part B @ 140bpm. When I originally recorded this song, I recorded Parts A & B separately, since I wrote Part B first and then Part A later. In Part A, it had the "centering" effect I described earlier. However, in Part B, it already had the separation I was looking for. I didn't have to nudge/amp sim Part B as I had to do with Part A. I had the tracks for Part B set up exactly the same as I did with Part A, smiley-face EQ, and the left track with reverb & 1/8 delay. I checked both track objects for Part B, and they were the exact same object, with the exact same position index. I'm not complaining, because I got the solution I wanted. I'm just curious why I didn't have to fix Part B as I had to do with Part A.
 
This might seem like a dumb question, but if a copy of the exact same guitar part is panned directly opposite the original, it will just sound mono. But what if they are effected differently and panned say, hard left and quarter past ? Would that make a difference ?
 
The panning makes no odds. It's still just the same as panning a single copy.
If the tracks are treated or effected differently then sure it'll start getting interesting but whether it's the good kind or the bad kind just depends, I guess.
 
grimtraveller said:
This might seem like a dumb question, but if a copy of the exact same guitar part is panned directly opposite the original, it will just sound mono. But what if they are effected differently and panned say, hard left and quarter past ? Would that make a difference ?
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I think it might, depending on what effect affected them, and to what effect this effect affected them. So, in effect, it depends on the effect.
 
Do you have multiple verses (at the same tempo)? If so, you could try copying verse 2's guitar part to another track, slide it backwards so it lines up with verse 1, etc.
 
grimtraveller said:
This might seem like a dumb question, but if a copy of the exact same guitar part is panned directly opposite the original, it will just sound mono. But what if they are effected differently and panned say, hard left and quarter past ? Would that make a difference ?
Click to expand...
It could work but the better option might be to copy verse 1 and play it next to verse 2 and vice versa.
Also, if you manipulate the same tracks, don't use delay. You'll most likely create phase issues.
 
RAMI said:
That would definitely work. That's actually true doubling because you're using 2 separate performances.
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Yup. I've done that before when I've discovered I didn't like how a single track was working and wanted to double up.
 
Damn, I was going to be the smarty with the "cut up the verses" suggestion, but you buggers beat me to it... :(
 
StrandedLegion said:
Well, I have two tracks, and each one is panned hard to either side. The thing is, the two tracks aren't different recordings. I just copied the same recording into both tracks.
Click to expand...
One track panned center = same thing coming out of each speaker = mono
Two copies of the same track panned apart = same thing coming out of each speaker = mono

Youv'e got three choices:
1. stereo chorus
2. Nudge the copied track a little in time
3. reamp the track with a mic farther away from the amp

The room mic thing is how old school recordings were made stereo. The example that pops to mind are the rythm guitars on Motley Crue Speak of the Devil album.
 
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