Piano Compression?

S

Sheras

New member
I've been listening to the piano in the Beatles' "Lady Madonna" and it's quite a unique sounding piano. I've played that song on many different pianos and it never sounds anything like their piano. My question is, does anyone know if they are using heavy compression to change the sound of their piano?

The overall timbre of that piano sounds very full in midrange and deep. There are no real highs in the notes. But if I play those exact notes on any piano, it almost sounds like I am playing an octave higher then they are, and if I compensate and go an octave lower, it sounds way too deep. I just can't figure this out. Does anyone know and know how they did it?

Thanks
 
top of my head

Off memory..from knowing that song...I'd say..try using a dynamic mic that will not have as crisp a transient response, and a lessened high-frequency range....use an SM57 dead center of the strings/hammers maybe, facing straight down, maybe a foot directly above the hammers...or try a ribbon if you got one..

..I'll listen to the song fresh if I can find it, and see what I think then.

....listened..definitely go for an SM57.. I like to get it right at the mic level first..granted, you can stick a U87 in there and then EQ and compress the hell outta it..

..but..use a dynamic mic like a 57 for that sound..
 
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Thanks Guardian. I really appreciate your input. I will look into that and see what I can pull off. If you have any more input or ideas, please let me know!

Thanks again
 
I tried playing around with compressing the track I already recorded in both Acid and Sound Forge, and I still couldn't get that strong, yet compressed sound they have. When I go to limit and compress it, it makes the piano disappear and sound like its way in the background.
 
hmm

Re-record it with a dynamic mic like a 57 that doesn't have a high frequency response over 13k or so..that'll give you the tone you want. Compressing it will give it that plucky kinda sound...just guessing, but you could try setting the compressor to just capture the attacks of the hammers, and do those at like 8:1 or so..and then raise the output gain a lot, so you'll be getting a lot of hammer and not as much sustain...and then re-compress the sustain part of the sound differently...for the hammers, set the attack as fast as you can without getting artifacts with your plugin, and then tweak the release until you're getting as much hammer sound as you want.

..or just try and compress the whole thing at like -36db or so for threshold, and a ratio of 10:1 or MORE, to squash the entire sound..and crank the output..and see what that sounds like..but I think doing seperate compression on the different parts of the sound envelope is the ticket for that kinda sound.

(the reason it might be dropping into the background is you're losing the attack portion of the sound <hammers>, and/or you're not raising the output gain of the compressor plugin..
..You could always just normalize the entire thing after, but I'd say get the output gain right below clipping and then normalize it after

*Sorry I didn't mention the compression bit in the last post, I got caught up in talking about the mic :)
 
That's some awesome information. I will see if I can test that tonight when I get home.

When you mentioned using a ribbon when miking the piano, what did you mean specifically?

Thanks Guardian for the great input. I appreciate it a lot. And if you get more info or ideas to share, please let me know!

Thanks again.
 
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mic

I meant a 'ribbon mic'. They typically have a less 'crisp' upper end,..a good description would be 'warm'..but they're very fragile and expensive for a decent one. They're good at taking the 'edge' off sizzly/harsh sounds, especially ones that have a lot of high end 'bite to them..like violas, violins, cymbals, brass, etc...

But that kinda cheap/honky tonk/clanky sound from L.M is probably a dynamic or a condenser EQ'd to basically sound like a dynamic...don't get me wrong, a good dynamic is ..well..good. I'd take a Sennheiser MD441 or 421 over a cheap condenser anyday.. the SM57 is a good mic, but it kinda drops off around 15k or so, so it will help to color the piano the way you want it to sound.
 
Hey Guardian,
Here's a little tid-bit I found while searching around to find out more about their recording/EQ techniques:

Interview with the Beatles sound engineer:
"How did you create the infamous overbright, overcompressed piano sound of "Lady Madonna"?

That was just the sound of the Fairchild, driven a bit more than usual. I used the same mic technique -- two D19's, down in the sound holes. "
 
awesome

So we were right, mostly...dynamic mic <AKG D-19> which without hearing it, or knowing it, has similar specs to a 57.. frequency response upto 16k, sm57 is 15k>..

I'd buy one for the hell of it if I had any money, but I'm very broke at the moment, so...I found one on Ebay for ya:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=935899002

<update>..oops.. that one is DOA and 'as is'..so dont buy it unless you can fix it...this is the Telefunken issue of the same thing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=935767317

..the fairchild is a vintage compressor... wouldn't mind having a wall of this kinda stuff to play with...it's tube-driven, and they said they 'drove it a little hard'..so they probably cranked the level a bit coming in to get some tube distortion...I ALMOST said to add a little distortion into the sound, but I thought that was the dynamic mic I heard..I knew I heard some 'grit' in there...gotta learn to trust my instincts..

SO..without spending a lot of money..you should be able to take an SM57, and use a compressor, and get the sound you're looking for..if you've got Antares Mic Modeller, there's a neat little 'tube' setting you can adjust to add in fake tube distortion..and they might have a D19 listed <Telefunken also sold it under their name>, so turning an SM57 into a D19 shouldn't be too much of a stretch to emulate..probably won't notice the difference..and if you raise that little 'tube' setting on the bottom, you should get what you're looking for.
 
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