Panning

Nola

Nola

Well-known member
Hey guys.

Something I noticed is that sometimes everything sounds better panned dead center, like a mono mix. I feel guilty when it does b/c we're always told in modern music there needs separation.

Here's an example: I'm mixing a new song that has a chamber reverb drum that has a lot of space, bass guitar, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, vocal (plate with a lot of space), some feedback droning.

The electric guitar is playing the main melody line and the main chords (the acoustic is just enhancing pulse and sounds best C). As soon as I pan it off center the mix sounds weird. So I put the feedback drone on the right to balance it. It still sounds weird. Like for whatever reason they sound better blended right down center with the others. I can pan the guitar left a little with it sounding good, but definitely nothing close to hard pan. It's a sparse mix, so I'm thinking that is why. Would you say in a sparse mix mono makes some sense?

I almost feel "wrong" or "guilty", even though it sounds best this way. I once read a quote from a popular engineer, I forget who, who wrote that we all tend to tinker with things thinking we have to do them b/c it's norm or convention, and I feel like I'm having one of those moments. I'm thinking of just trusting my ear and going mostly mono but feel "wrong"....need a pep talk!
 
There is nothing wrong with mixing in mono and if it sounds good to you....you're done. However, if you're seeking feedback, it's hard to determine without hearing it; you should post it on the mp3 clinic.
 
You're still mixing with headphones, right? With headphones there is no 'bleed' from left to right and right to left, like you get when listening to speakers ....
 
People rave about the "classics" from the era of mono only.

People rave about the the "classic" LCR mix scenario.

People rave about the "classic" mixes with the 180 degree pan pots.

I'm not sure who is right - maybe they all are right?
 
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I can't do another acoustic. The mix is sparse (like Dave Brubeck Take 5 type sparse) and that's part of the engineering I want for this song. It's more a pulsing, droning acoustic that strums a specific pattern to just keep 16th note pulse (the drums are highly syncopated without any cymbals so this acoustic is serving that purpose basically). To double it would be weird and panning it weirder as it's essentially part of the percussion for this song.

It's just a bit strange to know it sounds better mono, yet also know the majority of people crave stereo, and I'm not giving it to them. I feel conflicted and just want opinions on this: if it sounds better mono do I just do it, or do I somehow try to force stereo? I do have a 2nd electric guitar I can use for the stereo. I just thought it sounded weird and vacant when panned wide and preferred mono.

When I finish the mix soon I'll post it in the clinic. I'll do one mono and one with the panned electrics. I am just wondering, in theory, if people have an issue with mono mixes or think it could actually sound better in some cases, even in the modern era.
 
If it sounds better in mono, mix it in mono.

Your reverbs will be in stereo, so that's something.
 
Sometimes in sparse mixes I pan thing just slightly. With so few things they don't stick out so much but it still gives some sense of space.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Sometimes in sparse mixes I pan thing just slightly. With so few things they don't stick out so much but it still gives some sense of space.
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Thanks, Boulder, that's exactly what I was thinking. When I pan the electrics just a bit (like l/r 30) it sounds good and gives just enough so it's not so mono sounding.
 
This kind of thread always freaks me out. You're the only one who knows what your thing is supposed to sound like. If you don't know, then why are you even doing it? But even then, if you were saying like "I just can't get what I want," and asking for suggestions, I could almost dig it. Here, though, it's like you have what you want but you're asking some random assholes on the internet for permission. That is strange to me.

That said, I very rarely pan much of anything more than 30% or so. It's not any kind of rule, but it's just where things tend to sound best to me. We very rarely experience live music where we are completely surrounded by the instruments. More often, they're all arrayed in front of us, and nothing is ever really hard panned.

That said, when you listen on speakers rather than headphones, you have much that same thing going on, and you can get away with panning things harder. Sometimes the way it comes together in the room can be better that way. To an extent you have to decide whether (or how far) you want to lean toward headphone compatibility.
 
ashcat_lt said:
This kind of thread always freaks me out.
Click to expand...

It's like a post asking, "What's my favorite color?"

ashcat_lt said:
To an extent you have to decide whether (or how far) you want to lean toward headphone compatibility.
Click to expand...

High passing the difference channel, what the Basslane and other plugins do, can help bring those two worlds together. Getting LF in one ear just doesn't happen in a real acoustic space so it's disconcerting to hear panned LF in headphones. For this purpose "LF" goes up to 300Hz or so, which affects a lot of instruments, not just specifically bass ones.
 
ashcat_lt said:
This kind of thread always freaks me out. You're the only one who knows what your thing is supposed to sound like. If you don't know, then why are you even doing it? But even then, if you were saying like "I just can't get what I want," and asking for suggestions, I could almost dig it. Here, though, it's like you have what you want but you're asking some random assholes on the internet for permission. That is strange to me.

That said, I very rarely pan much of anything more than 30% or so. It's not any kind of rule, but it's just where things tend to sound best to me. We very rarely experience live music where we are completely surrounded by the instruments. More often, they're all arrayed in front of us, and nothing is ever really hard panned.

That said, when you listen on speakers rather than headphones, you have much that same thing going on, and you can get away with panning things harder. Sometimes the way it comes together in the room can be better that way. To an extent you have to decide whether (or how far) you want to lean toward headphone compatibility.
Click to expand...

Hm, it's not like that at all. Sorry if it comes off that way. Ill try to explain: I'll ultimately do what I think sounds best, but knowing "modern music isn't mixed in mono" etc makes me think before doing it. Not so much asking for permission just running that internal battle by the forum. Like I think the loudness wars suck and always wind up mixing much lower, etc, and I don't ask permission.

I know the trend is for wide, loud, etc, (everything bigger, louder, badder, more effects, etc) so there's always a bit of 2nd thought when not going that direction, and really what I was looking for was encouragement to ignore that voice telling me mono isn't good. I found it within, but hearing a few more people say it helped. A few people offered useful ideas, too.
 
There are a million ways to mix something in mono, there are a million ways to mix it in stereo. When you say it sounds better in mono, what you mean is that the ways you've tried to mix it in mono sound better than the ways you've tried in stereo, which of course says nothing conclusive about either mono or stereo.
 
ashcat_lt said:
...but you're asking some random assholes on the internet for permission.
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:laughings: (I'm just laughing at the comment...not at anyone.)

I mix big and wide...and it has nothing to do with "modern music". I've been mixing that way from almost day 1...which goes back many years before the "modern music" of today.
I like to use the stereo field to its fullest.
That said...and as many have said...it all depends on the instrumentation and what it is you are going for.
If you ARE looking to mimic some "modern" band...then I guess you mix how they did.

I don't like to think of mixing in terms of how things sound in a room, in front of you, where we are generally dealing with speech or focused sources, and where we tend to turn toward them..etc.
I like the music to immerse the listener...and I always have something at full left & right...even if the bulk is more centered.
Ear candy. :)
Music production/mixing is about using your palette in a creative/artistic way...IMO...and not about following some current trend, unless of course that's what you want your music to sound like.

Also...these days, too often people are mixing for a specif delivery format. I've seen guys talking about rolling everything of on the lows and highs "because ear buds don't translate those frequencies too well".
So they end up with a mid-heavy mix. :facepalm:

Panning a given mix is very specific to that mix...not to a trend, IMO...and without hearing what the fuck it is we are all commenting on...it's rather silly to even BEGIN to comment on how it is best to approach it...just sayin. ;)
 
I've been mixing LRC since before I knew what it was. Before I knew it was cool. Since before I found out that some think it's not cool.

Also combine that with stuff slightly panned off center.

Point is; I dont care what is considered good, current , fashionable, modern, vintage sounding, etc.

I don't care.
I have two speakers. A left and a right and I sit in the middle of them. In that space available to me, I fill it with sounds.

If I like what I'm hearing, I'm happy.
If others don't, I don't care.
:D
 
I dunno. So many tangents and misinterpretations and assumptions (semi insults like I'm dumb/asking what my favorite color is), idea that I'm asking permission, etc. Then I have to explain it all. Really I just want to know if mixing in mono is fine in the modern age. Maybe I should have kept it that simple.
But since I didn't, I just regret making the thread now.
 
Yeah, ok. You got some differing veiws, maybe sone slights
But big deal, dont worry about it. Just do what sounds good to you.

It's not like anyone here has any power or say over you.

Do what you like, anyone else that doesn't like it. Eff Em. :D
 
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