I know what you mean about starting with the bass. I'm doing that more too. As you say, it helps keep the possibilities fluid deeper into the composition process. The bass is figuring more and more in my music anyway. I've been studying and playing bass it in a more serious way for the last couple of years. I'm starting to think more like a bassist than a guitar player. That is always a change for the better.
One man bands: what's your workflow?
- Thread starter easlern
- Start date
I've never been able to do it any other way. People who can start with a lyric and set it to music amaze me. For me it has to begin with the instrumentals and build up from there, with the lyrics the last to come.
First I lay down a looped drum measure, I use EZ Drummer sounds and sometimes one of their measures, but usually I'll midi from a keyboard. Then I'll put a rhythm guitar. After that comes a scratch vocal that might end up being used. I like to key off of the vocal. After that I'll usually swap out drum measures for fills. Then fill out the rhythm and maybe some live percussion stuff. I take a lot of time doing guitar fills and leads because I'm just plain slow. I might spend 20 minutes or more on one guitar fill. Leads are often put together from four or five comp tracks. Then come harmony vocals. I tune all the harmonies, and most of the lead vocals. I'll do the bass either before or after the harmonies, being mostly a bass player I can hear the bass when it's not there and since the bass is the most important thing in the song (well, maybe the vocal SOMETIMES) I like to make it groove with the band. Mixing is always with a comparison track. Some track by an artist whose mixes I really like, often Vince Gill or Lyle Lovett, sometimes Steely Dan that I can solo out now and then to check my mix. Here's my current album, ironically called "The One Man Band." The cover tunes are just snippets but the originals have the whole song. I overdid the de-esser on "Alibis and Lullabies" which I've corrected for the cd (it never stops LOL). The Dylan and Lightfoot acoustic tunes were recorded a few years ago, the others are a few months old. https://loudr.fm/release/mike-dunbar-one-man-band/8bFTu
I like the way you work. And also your influences: Vince Gil, Lyle Lovett, Steely Dan! Very cool. Your recordings sound terrific.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I always write the lyrics first. They may undergo major revisions depending on what happens with the music.
I've got most of the music - chords - (but not arrangment) worked out before I start recording.
Recording: I find a drum loop (EZDrummer) that fits the 'feel' of the song, play around until I find the right tempo. Record a scratch guitar (occasionally piano) track to that loop. That way I can see/hear if any sections of the osng need to be sped up or slowed down (or pauses). I adjust the loop, if needed, and re-do the scratch track.
Next comes the 'real' guitar tracks - I may record 2 or more rhythm tracks, played differently or on different guitars. One, both or many may get used in the final mix - depends on the song. If its a piano son, I'll typically get that done in 2 tracks.
For me this is now the time to put the drums in order. As I'm not a drummer, I can't put the drums effectively in place until I know the rhythm 'feel' of the song (from the guitar). I use EZD2, so starting with the original loop I chose for the scratch track, I'll go from there, finding similar patterns, adjusting number of hits per instrument (EZD2 feature), pick the drum kit. I'll then use MIDI editing to change measures/patterns, copy/paste to different parts of the song. I may throw a few fills in at this point, but I'll go back and edit those later, too.
Once I've got the drum track to that point, I'm ready to record the bass. Then come any other rhythm instruments - other guitars, keys.
Vocals next - lead vocal might get tracked half a dozen times. then backup vocals. then lead parts - guitar, synths.
After intial mixing, I may go back and re-record lead vocals or lead parts, depending on how things are fitting together and sounding.
I've got most of the music - chords - (but not arrangment) worked out before I start recording.
Recording: I find a drum loop (EZDrummer) that fits the 'feel' of the song, play around until I find the right tempo. Record a scratch guitar (occasionally piano) track to that loop. That way I can see/hear if any sections of the osng need to be sped up or slowed down (or pauses). I adjust the loop, if needed, and re-do the scratch track.
Next comes the 'real' guitar tracks - I may record 2 or more rhythm tracks, played differently or on different guitars. One, both or many may get used in the final mix - depends on the song. If its a piano son, I'll typically get that done in 2 tracks.
For me this is now the time to put the drums in order. As I'm not a drummer, I can't put the drums effectively in place until I know the rhythm 'feel' of the song (from the guitar). I use EZD2, so starting with the original loop I chose for the scratch track, I'll go from there, finding similar patterns, adjusting number of hits per instrument (EZD2 feature), pick the drum kit. I'll then use MIDI editing to change measures/patterns, copy/paste to different parts of the song. I may throw a few fills in at this point, but I'll go back and edit those later, too.
Once I've got the drum track to that point, I'm ready to record the bass. Then come any other rhythm instruments - other guitars, keys.
Vocals next - lead vocal might get tracked half a dozen times. then backup vocals. then lead parts - guitar, synths.
After intial mixing, I may go back and re-record lead vocals or lead parts, depending on how things are fitting together and sounding.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
I can only do it when I'm home alone as I'd be embarrassed for anyone to hear me singing utter nonsense.Then I'll listen back and comp any vocal parts that sound good to me.
same here - the songs always start with sounds and not words...i wait for something to pop out at me and stick, so i'm pretty much making vowel sounds up until then. it sounds ridiculous. I have a recorder app on my cell that i use for scratch ideas. I literally have over 400 files on it from the last two years, but it all sounds like gibberish. Usually, only three or four words in a row make sense as an idea, otherwise it's all random. I go back and listen to those, or get really excited about the one i just came up with, and i'll decide to write something out of it. I only want the hook to be completely done before recording...the rest i fill in at the last minute.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I find the loop, set the tempo, then just play along with it first to see if its right. Adjust and try again. Then record the scratch track.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
I find I have to slow down the tempo by about 3-8 bpm, usually. I want to try experimenting with something like this: verse at 120 bpm and chorus at 122 bpm. I'm not sure how to set my DAW for multiple tempo changes, however.
I used to try that years ago, when I was using an old sequencer for MIDI tracks and then recording the output to tape. I wanted to emulate things like the natural increases and decreases of tempo that occur when a live band performs. End result: I drove myself nuts trying to get it right, and was never happy with the outcome.
My motto now is KISS.
Tadpui
Well-known member
Sounds like my approach is pretty similar to Chili's. If the song is already written/structured, I'll start with a scratch track. Then add simple drums (like mjb, I'll usually use EZD2's Tap-To-Find and find a pattern that has a general match for the feel, then just loop it). Maybe a scratch bass line. Then keeper guitars. Then I'll usually try to perform a keeper drum track that cements the rhythmic feel. Then a keeper bass so I can follow the kick and snare. Then solos, fills, possible keys, and vocals.
...then I obsess over minutiae in the mix that nobody will ever notice nor care about for at least a week, listen to it so many times that I hear it in my sleep and first thing upon waking, tweak a few more things that nobody will ever notice, send it to a friend or two, debate about posting it in the clinic for at least 3 days, get a good buzz on and decide to go ahead and post in the clinic, then get actual good advice on the obvious things that I overlooked. Do a remix and completely lose interest because I'm so burned out on the song. 50% of the time I'll actually post a remix based on the clinic's advice. Then I bury the song deep and forget all about it for at least 4 or 5 years. By then I've upgraded a bunch of equipment and I record it all over again with new toys.
I think that pretty much covers my methodology...
...then I obsess over minutiae in the mix that nobody will ever notice nor care about for at least a week, listen to it so many times that I hear it in my sleep and first thing upon waking, tweak a few more things that nobody will ever notice, send it to a friend or two, debate about posting it in the clinic for at least 3 days, get a good buzz on and decide to go ahead and post in the clinic, then get actual good advice on the obvious things that I overlooked. Do a remix and completely lose interest because I'm so burned out on the song. 50% of the time I'll actually post a remix based on the clinic's advice. Then I bury the song deep and forget all about it for at least 4 or 5 years. By then I've upgraded a bunch of equipment and I record it all over again with new toys.
I think that pretty much covers my methodology...
Grim, but too true!
I'm trying to break some of those habits myself, and just finish things.
mjbphotos
Moderator
In Reaper it's easy - the tempo is is at the top of the timeline view, and you can set for an instant change or highlite a region and get a gradual change.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Workflow
I had to laugh (friendly laugh) at that closing line. It fits me perfectly
For the record (no pun intended), I usually know what I want to write about. Sometimes I strum around on an acoustic and mess with chord progressions until the lyric starts to evolve. If the lyrics don't come then I just have a bourbon and start again.
I get the basic guitar part and rough vocal down on one track so I know that I have something I could go out and busk with.
Next, choose the tempo and set up a click track or choose a drum loop to play to.
Guitar first, rough vocal, bass, piano, sax(keyboard), effects, choral work.
Finally, I listen to the original rough acoustic track and throw the rest away!
Only joking. I listen to the original piece and sum up the kind of emotions I want to bring to the vocal and then I get the vocal down (several takes).
I record drums over the top of this assembly and if I feel my drums are not good enough (I'm not a great drummer) then I set to creating the best I can using samples.
Then it's time to sort out timing issues. The sax is usually in need of tweaking as I don't have to breathe when using the keyboard. So, I listen to the sax part and blow out. If I run out of breath before the end of the riff then I shorten it. It's the best simulation I can think of (ex trumpet player).
This is my first post - please be gentle.
I'm a songwriter, but do all the instruments myself. So the order usually depends on what I'm writing on. If the song is a guitar based song, guitar is usually the first track recorded. If it's a key based song, usually I start with a piano (although it may turn into something other...). One or the other to a click track.
I just finished a song where I started with the concept for the drums first. Built the intro after the drum part, then got the guitars on, keys, and finally bass. Then I went back and redid most of the tracks (in no basic order).
IOW, I do whatever I want, whenever I want and make music that no one wants to hear...
I had to laugh (friendly laugh) at that closing line. It fits me perfectly
For the record (no pun intended), I usually know what I want to write about. Sometimes I strum around on an acoustic and mess with chord progressions until the lyric starts to evolve. If the lyrics don't come then I just have a bourbon and start again.
I get the basic guitar part and rough vocal down on one track so I know that I have something I could go out and busk with.
Next, choose the tempo and set up a click track or choose a drum loop to play to.
Guitar first, rough vocal, bass, piano, sax(keyboard), effects, choral work.
Finally, I listen to the original rough acoustic track and throw the rest away!
Only joking. I listen to the original piece and sum up the kind of emotions I want to bring to the vocal and then I get the vocal down (several takes).
I record drums over the top of this assembly and if I feel my drums are not good enough (I'm not a great drummer) then I set to creating the best I can using samples.
Then it's time to sort out timing issues. The sax is usually in need of tweaking as I don't have to breathe when using the keyboard. So, I listen to the sax part and blow out. If I run out of breath before the end of the riff then I shorten it. It's the best simulation I can think of (ex trumpet player).
This is my first post - please be gentle.
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Almost all my projects start in Band In A Box (don't laugh - it works - and it's more enjoyable then playing to a click track). I enter the chord progression into BIAB and then have a basic band to jam with (drums, bass, guitar & keys). I export the BIAB file as a MIDI file in to Sonar (my recording media of choice). I have several MIDI keys and modules to generate realistic sounds.
I then record a rhythm guitar track and a scratch vocal - to give me a point of reference for the song arrangement. I then start to replace all the BIAB tracks with performance tracks, normally starting with drums, than bass guitar and then any other melodic support tracks, guitars, keys, etc.
Next, I replace the scratch vocal with a "real" vocal and then record any harmony vocals. Lastly, I track any "solos" (lead guitar, sax, violin, etc.) - at that point I'm ready for the final mix and mastering.
I then record a rhythm guitar track and a scratch vocal - to give me a point of reference for the song arrangement. I then start to replace all the BIAB tracks with performance tracks, normally starting with drums, than bass guitar and then any other melodic support tracks, guitars, keys, etc.
Next, I replace the scratch vocal with a "real" vocal and then record any harmony vocals. Lastly, I track any "solos" (lead guitar, sax, violin, etc.) - at that point I'm ready for the final mix and mastering.