No 'sparkle'

Codmate

Codmate

New member
Hi all, I've been doing some home recording over the past year and have got some reasonable results with one caveat - none of the mixes I make have any 'sparkle' to them.

Basically everything I do ends up sounding as though it has come through a cushion :(

Now - I know I'm posting this in the mixing/mastering forum, but the problem could be almost anywhere in my signal chain - and could even be something to do with the material and arrangements!

Anyway - I'll give you an idea of my process and maybe you lot can help me identify where the 'mush' is creeping in, or give me some ideas of experiments to try to help find where it's coming from.

I'm recording everything in a small bedroom. There is a very slight reverb (a very fast slap-back if I clap my hands) and my PC is in the room. It's quite quiet though, besides you'll never hear it over my extraordinarily-noisy valve amp ;)

I'm using an M-Audio Delta66 with the OmniStudio break-out box.

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'Thursday'
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http://tinyurl.com/4z3cq

The line-up for this track is:
* Gibson Les Paul Studio through Fender Vibrolux - mic was an SM58 on the cab. Sounded fairly bright at the time, the amp is quite 'twangy'.
* LoungeLizard VSTi (Fender Rhodes type sound)
* CheeseMachine VSTi (high-pitched synth noise)
* 2 different sets of Backing vocals, one 3-part harmony from the lead singer, one double-tracked counter melody from a different singer - mic was a Rode NT3 (hypercardiod condensor)
* One set of lead vocals - mic was the NT3 again
* One plucked stand up bass part - line in via a SansAmp bass unit
* One bowed stand-up bass part - line in via a SansAmp bass unit
* Cellofan VSTi (Cello sound)

I'm not using vast numbers of plug-ins at all. I have a fairly conservative amount of digital reverb on everything except the bass group (plucked bass, cellofan and bowed bass), which has no reverb at all.
The second set of BVs and the 'CheeseMachine' have vast amounts of reverb as well as some delay.

I'm using Waves R-Comp as a compressor on all the vocals (separated into the two groups of vox and the lead on its own, I have the compressor on the groups as opposed to the individual tracks).

I have a low-shelf on everything apart from the plucked upright bass in an attempt to make everything brighter.

I don't really master stuff myself - but I do make things louder by using WavesL2 (or similar) when I want to pass stuff around to friends etc so you'll hear that (unless it would help if I posted the raw export).


Cry
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http://tinyurl.com/6p53o

The instrumentation and methods are a bit simpler on this one:
* Gibson Les Paul Studio through Fender Vibrolux - mic was an SM58 on the cab. One distorted lead part using Tube screamer and another clean but with loads of reverb on the amp.
* Halion triggering drum samples
* One set of BV's in the chorus and one set towards the end mic was the SM58.
* One set of lead vocals - mic was the SM58 in this case.
* One active fretless bass part - recorded direct.

I have low shelves on everything but the bass part (and even a small one on that), as with the track I'm going to post later.
This track makes more extensive use of reverb and delays (especially on the BVs towards the end). The BVs at the end were recorded in a tiny stone-walled toilet for a laugh. The sound was very boxy but I quite liked it :)

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My objective for future recording is to get much brighter sounding tracks - especially the vocal sound.

Many thanks for any help.
 
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The mp3 you posted is of low quality so it is hard to hear for sparkle. try and see if you can post a high bitrate mp3 or wma (192 or higher).
Just one thing you should always keep in mind: Drum samples will not have the sparkle and fill that a real drum set provides.
Also for vocal sparkle, an SM58 will probably not get you the sound you are asking for. You'll probably have to use a LDC to get some kind of sparkle.
I cant really say anything else without hearing a better quality sound file.
 
OK - I'll encode at a higher bitrate and post them up tomorrow.

I'll be interested to find out what people think.

Cheers!
 
JazzMang said:
The mp3 you posted is of low quality so it is hard to hear for sparkle. try and see if you can post a high bitrate mp3 or wma (192 or higher).
Just one thing you should always keep in mind: Drum samples will not have the sparkle and fill that a real drum set provides.
Also for vocal sparkle, an SM58 will probably not get you the sound you are asking for. You'll probably have to use a LDC to get some kind of sparkle.
I cant really say anything else without hearing a better quality sound file.
Click to expand...
The file's at 128kbps...... more than enough bitrate to hear the lack of sparkle and sonic problems...

There's certainly a question of sound quality/patch choices for the drums and maybe some of the other instruments. And the vocals ARE muddy... there's also little depth or ambience to any of the tracks.

The most problematic/telling thing though is this flanging sound that's on top of everything. It sounds like you might have a routing issue where a delayed version of the signal is being looped back onto itself, either via some effects or other processing that you may have going on. This is causing the comb-filtering effect that is creating this flangy, wooshy sound over the top of everything.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
The file's at 128kbps...... more than enough bitrate to hear the lack of sparkle and sonic problems...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I got that much, hence my comments about the lifeless vox and poor drum sample quality.
All I was saying was that the MP3 codec he used sounds awful. Listen to the cymbal crashes at 2:49. Terrible MP3 artifacts.
Remember: not all 128k MP3 streams are the same... regardless, it still sounds dead and lifeless.


Yeah, I agree with the wooshy sound though... it almost sounds intentional though. Although in my opinion, it doesn't sound pleasant at all.

Codmate did you put some sort of light chorus/flanger effect on anything? if you did, i think its getting bastardized. It makes the song lose all soundscape definition.

Just my 2 cents.
 
JazzMang said:
Yeah, I got that much, hence my comments about the lifeless vox and poor drum sample quality.
All I was saying was that the MP3 codec he used sounds awful. Listen to the cymbal crashes at 2:49. Terrible MP3 artifacts.
Remember: not all 128k MP3 streams are the same... regardless, it still sounds dead and lifeless.


Yeah, I agree with the wooshy sound though... it almost sounds intentional though. Although in my opinion, it doesn't sound pleasant at all.

Codmate did you put some sort of light chorus/flanger effect on anything? if you did, i think its getting bastardized. It makes the song lose all soundscape definition.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

There is a small amount of phasing on the hi-hat on 'Cry' - maybe that's what you're hearing?

In a previous version it was much more pronounced - I was going for a Lee 'Scratch' Perry type sound on that ;)
I rolled it back after a while though as it started to irritate me. Maybe I should have ditched it altogether.

I've re-uploaded 'Cry' and have also uploaded 'Thursday now.

Please critisize away and give me some ideas as to where I could be going wrong.

Would it help if I uploaded versions without any limiting shoved on the end? I'm currently putting some limiting on the whole track just to make them a bit louder - I let it attenuate to about 6dB maximum.

I could even upload a verson of each with no reverb or plug-ins of any kind if that would help you help me.

Many many thanks for your kind input - I'm only just getting going at this and although I feel I have the 'ears' (I can hear when stuff is wrong), frustratingly I don't have the knowledge to fix it.

Anyway - here are the revised tracks - output from Wavelab4 with its default MP3 codec at 320kbps 44100Hz

I hope you get some enjoyment from the songs - even if they're badly recorded and mixed!

Thursday:
http://tinyurl.com/4z3cq

Cry:
http://tinyurl.com/6p53o

Many thanks again for *any* input you have - even though I have quite poor equipment I think I should be able to get much better results with it :)

BTW - I'm aware of 2 nasty clicks at around 2:52 on 'Thursday', I think these crept in during limiting or conversion to mp3 as I don't recall them being on the tracks.
I'll have a closer listen later though.
They're made up for by the rhodes sound, guitar and plucked bass combining to sound like a harp at 2:43 though. One of those things that was completly accidental and probably unrepeatable :)
 
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Could an admin please move this thread to the 'MP3 Mixing Clinic' as that's probably the best place for it?

Many thanks.
 
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