Multing/Gain staging question

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davecg321

New member
I've recently been looking at some videos on youtube with regards to gain staging after theach tracks have been recorded.

One tutorial said it's good practice to set all the faders at unity and play the track in its entirety. The guy then systematically went through each track and increased or decreased the gain (within the daw) so that the very upmost peaks reached -10 dbfs for each track.

Now this got me thinking... what if I've recorded one guitar track which varies in dynamics from start to finish. I then mult this track (splitting the various parts verse/chorus etc onto seperate tracks for independent processing/mixing) should I then do the same gain staging process described above for each multed part? Or, should I do this just to the one track to start with, before multing...?


Hmmm

D
 
davecg321 said:
One tutorial said it's good practice to set all the faders at unity and play the track in its entirety. The guy then systematically went through each track and increased or decreased the gain (within the daw) so that the very upmost peaks reached -10 dbfs for each track.
Click to expand...

I never heard of this. Why is it good practice to do that?
 
That's just silly. First off, you should be getting the appropriate level when you are recording, not by adjusting the waves after the fact.

As long as nothing clips, the peaks are irrelevant. The fader position is pretty irrelevant in a daw as well.

This just sound like someone's OCD attempting to make everything even when you look at it instead of making music when you listen to it.

Just record at good levels and mix. Use the faders, the clip gain,or trim if you wish. It doesn't matter much.

Of course, the clip gain and trim will affect how much signal goes to any inserted plugins, but you would have to go way overboard before that turnshe into a problem.
 
You can use that as a "guide". YouBoob & many VIDs can be taken with a grain of salt. It don't hurt to just do it and make up your own mind. What was said in post #4. Metering is good, but tracks won't meter the same. Voltage will be different for bass and drums and you will want to consider how you play into Voltage Controlled Amplifiers, etc..
 
Ok cool. That aside, with my multed parts, one peaking -10 and another -24 should I increase the gain on the quiteter one so it peaks more around -10. So effectively it'll still sound as dynamic but just as loud as the louder track. Kinda like what a compressor would do but without actually compresing anything ...
 
I'm no expert, but I went through the phase you're in now where you're looking for tricks and meters, and really you have to ignore all that. Just mix things where they sound balanced b/c adding gain later is very simple. Gain staging (i.e. to not record too hot; you can record cool and usually be fine) is very important when recording but imo not too important with regard to mixing/faders, etc. I was paranoid for a while because my faders are always pretty low even when I record cool. I'm still not sure why but that's where the instruments sounded good. I've seen that guy's videos in the past. He seems knowledgeable, but he also has to churn out content for his channel, which might make him look for tricks that aren't really useful and pass them off as fact.
 
There is a use for meters when setting up the mix. If the levels of the tracks are off enough it's worth going through and setting the basic gain level of each track. For most things I shoot for the usual -18dBFS. That is, I set the gain so the average level of the track is -18dBFS. For percussive sounds I set gain by peak level, to about -12dBFS. At that point I may or may not go through and get a rough mix on the gain controls, again shooting for an average level of -18dBFS on my main meter.

After all that is when I get into things like adjusting a track's gain from section to section. This is when to listen first.
 
davecg321 said:
Ok cool. That aside, with my multed parts, one peaking -10 and another -24 should I increase the gain on the quiteter one so it peaks more around -10. So effectively it'll still sound as dynamic but just as loud as the louder track. Kinda like what a compressor would do but without actually compresing anything ...
Click to expand...
Is that what you want to hear, or is it just going to make you turn the quiet parts back down at a later stage?
 
Yup. Get the peaks right at the time of recording and let the dynamics go where the go. Then use your DAW's automation to change things during the mix. You gain (pun intended) nothing by splitting up the track so every section is at the same level--indeed you may end up putting the dynamics in during the mix.

That said, I'll commit the heresy of saying I have no problem using a compressor to get the dynamics within a "useful" range before I use automation to make is sound right as I mix.
 
davecg321 said:
Ok cool. That aside, with my multed parts, one peaking -10 and another -24 should I increase the gain on the quiteter one so it peaks more around -10. So effectively it'll still sound as dynamic but just as loud as the louder track. Kinda like what a compressor would do but without actually compresing anything ...
Click to expand...
the peaks don't mean much. An acoustic guitar and a distorted electric guitar that are the same volume will have vastly different peak levels.

Set the track so that it sounds right in the mix. What the meters say doesn't matter*, you don't have to line up the numbers.


*of course, if the meters say you are clipping, it matters. But anything reasonable below that is fair game. A good level of a sustained note or chord is -18dbfs, the peaks can be anywhere that are, as long as they don't clip.
 
Boy that video was dumb as shit. :D

I mean...I kinda get why he's doing it, and why he thinks it's a "good" way to set things up...but it's another case of the DAW generation making music with their eyes instead of their ears.
The only meter I would pay attention to is the master bus...so that you are not clipping it.
All that fader adjusting relative to highest peaks is BS.
Sure it may put your tracks in some "safe" zone...but it certainly isn't going to give you a good mix every time.
So then just like he was doing after he set the the first time...you're going to end up changing those levels throughout the mix process.
 
Here's one! I've never tried it, and really don't have a good reason to, but it almost makes sense and certainly is silly.

Set up a track with a pink noise generator or looped sample so that it sits at -18dbfs RMS. Now adjust the gain on each track (soloed, along with the noise) until you can just barely hear it through the noise. Turn off the noise. It's supposed to be like magic.

;)
 
Or the guy could stop pretending he is doing audio and realize that he is into graphics.
 
Yup. Meters are for setting levels during recording (or for set up during sound check for live). After that, only your ears really matter with slight reference to the master to make sure you don't clip.
 
Man I hate to beat a dead horse because others have already said my same thoughts. But we see it repeatedly here that people want to use their eyes more than ears. I also do not believe in cookie cutter how to's. That being said, there is something I do that is visual but serves a purpose. I set my outboard input level and leave it. I adjust the volume of the instrument to get full gain before clipping. If in the DAW the meter does not reach the Fader line, I then use a second gain to bring the meter up to the fader. This is gives me the full range of the fader when mixing.

Now the idea of breaking up your instrument parts into say: INTRO > VERSE > CHORUS, onto different tracks for dynamic processing is absolutely one way to do it, and I do it all the time.

If you have a compressor in your DAW then yes, it can serve as a gain stage without compressing. I do this. Sometimes I use a limiter, because these are "clean" gains.
 
Fuel and windspeed may be all you need cropdusting.. .. A boats instrument panel may be useless when what you need is four people taking soundings. Mixbus gives me a couple more lights to watch in the mixer section. How are those relevant ? It's up to each person to decide if any metering is useful, or, not. Running one channel into another for clean gain, or, dirty gain is pretty much a gain staging by ear thing
 
zepfan59 said:
Man I hate to beat a dead horse because others have already said my same thoughts. But we see it repeatedly here that people want to use their eyes more than ears. I also do not believe in cookie cutter how to's. That being said, there is something I do that is visual but serves a purpose. I set my outboard input level and leave it. I adjust the volume of the instrument to get full gain before clipping. If in the DAW the meter does not reach the Fader line, I then use a second gain to bring the meter up to the fader. This is gives me the full range of the fader when mixing.

Now the idea of breaking up your instrument parts into say: INTRO > VERSE > CHORUS, onto different tracks for dynamic processing is absolutely one way to do it, and I do it all the time.

If you have a compressor in your DAW then yes, it can serve as a gain stage without compressing. I do this. Sometimes I use a limiter, because these are "clean" gains.
Click to expand...



full gain before clipping? do you mean close to 0dbfs?
 
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