studiomaster
New member
Teach yourself and stop begging for help. That's not how life works. If that was the case, i would not be working and just ask people for money.
Mixing rap vocals with beat
- Thread starter Talent52
- Start date
It's the lack of high end equipment that's the problem. When I mix down beats, they are all centered, same as yours'. I notice a big difference between when I'm recording/mixing/mastering in the studio (Crystal Clear Studios) and when I'm using my home recording gear. That's just the way it goes. My thousand dollars worth of equipment can't get no way near the things I can do with the studio's hundred thousand dollar equipments. I'm still trying to get to that sound, and I've been working on that for a while.
If you dont want to help the man out then dont post and shut the fuck up! 
jimmy2sticks
New member
I agree. It is a shame that a bunch of idoits post reponses like this. What's wrong with rap? I am not a rapper, but I have engineered many. I have also engineered a whole bunch of other kinds of music. Being pretentious and saying things like this just shows how narrow-minded some of you are. These dudes who want to record rap don't harsh on you about what you are choosing to do with your creativity. Grow up.
Last edited:
blueroommusic
you want this big boy?
ha...I kid, I kid...I wasn't making a stupid remark because he's asking about hip-hop...I made a stupid remark because he's asking how to fit a vocal into a mix where everything is panned up the middle....that's like asking how to fit a cat meowing into a 3 piece metal band...
here's a solution for you...STOP SAMPLING!!! Beats are cool and all that, but why do most beatmakers have to use samples? I'll tell you why: it's because they are too lazy to come up with something of their own, and because it's faster....I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to record rapping over a beat made with samples...and then asked to mix it in 15 minutes...and then these guys wonder why it sounds like shit when they put it on myspace.
the hip-hop cats out there that are doing it right, 1) have been doing it for a while, 2)take the time to CREATE something from scratch, 3)if they use samples, it's done tastefully, and with the correct licenses and rights to do so.
Let the remarks begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jmarques
The Original BeatMinstrel
Hey there talent52,
First thing is you need to get some kind of setup together before you start anything.
My 3 favourite programs for doing anything are cubase, sound forge and fruity loops.
In your case you have sonar which I believe is very similar to cubase.
This is where I arrange all my tracking although some this can be done in fruity loops and brought in as a vsti or vst instrument and mix together in the cubase at least newer version are capable of doing this. Not sure if sonar has this capablity that something your going to have to check in to.
Sound Forge is an excellent program for sample editing, especially if you using it to slice beats apart and trying to putting a sample collection together. Also this is the fastest to getting into music on the computer.
Lastly Fruity Loops or FPL Studio as it call now. Is a fine program for putting beats togethers. Although there are other programs like reason, that will give you similar result. I find FL to be the most intuitive when it comes to drum machine programming plus it can be brought into cubase real time at the same time as you vocals and any instruments you might play live.
Next you should do searching on the internet about mixing or if you have a bit of cash buy this book "The Mixing Engineer's Handbook, Second Edition".
This has alot of vital mixing information. Its got a number of sections about using effect and processing. The other half of the book contain interviews with real producer and mixers explaining there mixing techiques. The book is worth the money.
Also it might be helpful to have a dozen or so songs you consider to be great mixes for comparative listening to see if you shit is getting there.
This is all I got for you hope it helps.
First thing is you need to get some kind of setup together before you start anything.
My 3 favourite programs for doing anything are cubase, sound forge and fruity loops.
In your case you have sonar which I believe is very similar to cubase.
This is where I arrange all my tracking although some this can be done in fruity loops and brought in as a vsti or vst instrument and mix together in the cubase at least newer version are capable of doing this. Not sure if sonar has this capablity that something your going to have to check in to.
Sound Forge is an excellent program for sample editing, especially if you using it to slice beats apart and trying to putting a sample collection together. Also this is the fastest to getting into music on the computer.
Lastly Fruity Loops or FPL Studio as it call now. Is a fine program for putting beats togethers. Although there are other programs like reason, that will give you similar result. I find FL to be the most intuitive when it comes to drum machine programming plus it can be brought into cubase real time at the same time as you vocals and any instruments you might play live.
Next you should do searching on the internet about mixing or if you have a bit of cash buy this book "The Mixing Engineer's Handbook, Second Edition".
This has alot of vital mixing information. Its got a number of sections about using effect and processing. The other half of the book contain interviews with real producer and mixers explaining there mixing techiques. The book is worth the money.
Also it might be helpful to have a dozen or so songs you consider to be great mixes for comparative listening to see if you shit is getting there.
This is all I got for you hope it helps.
blueroommusic said:
I agree with you 100% on that. I'm a hip hop producer/artist, and I make 99.9% of my stuff from scratch, well almost from scratch (keyboard's & occasional guitar). I absolutly hate the fact that people sample period. Yeah some of the stuff sounds good & cleaver, but not because they came up with it, it's because of the originals. I remember seeing Dr Dre's 2001 album, and his mpc2000 for sampling, then everyone thought his beats were the best out there, which they ain't, they are mostly just samples. Yeah there are some good players who sample but they do it only to a certain extent, and yeah like you said, tastefully. There's others' out there that sample the drum line, the bass line, and the melody, nothing they came up with at all, and paste them together, and call themselves producers & ill beat makers.
So i just checked this at work and i appreciate all the somewhat helpful advice. I know this can be done, because i have had it done before and it has sounded great, i am just trying to figure out how to do it myself so i'm not spending $30 an hour. Its becoming more and more clear to me that this is a wrong choice because although i am spending less money, i am spending hours and hours with not a lot of know how, veiwing home recording message boards and not getting anywhere. Im not looking for a big studio sound because its not a big studio album. i just dont want it to sound like two different songs. now for the people who think this can be done, is it possible to take my vocal tracks and the beat track and have someone mix it, or does it have to be done at the source??? hopefully this question will not cause so much controversy.
Oh and 6, i also hate rap as well (well, the rap you're probably thinking of) because most of it is just pop music with no real point and the beat is the only thing carrying the song through. On the other hand i do have an appreciation for rap that has good concepts and lyrical content such as sage francis or atmosphere...now as far as sampling goes, its not a matter of being lazy, its putting sounds together that sound good that the normal joe does not have access to, such as, i don't know, a full orchestra!!!!! you're still creating music with sampled beats. listen to some DJ shadow or RJD2 and tell me that they are just lazy.
I think that's everything........oh yeah, support local music!!!!
Oh and 6, i also hate rap as well (well, the rap you're probably thinking of) because most of it is just pop music with no real point and the beat is the only thing carrying the song through. On the other hand i do have an appreciation for rap that has good concepts and lyrical content such as sage francis or atmosphere...now as far as sampling goes, its not a matter of being lazy, its putting sounds together that sound good that the normal joe does not have access to, such as, i don't know, a full orchestra!!!!! you're still creating music with sampled beats. listen to some DJ shadow or RJD2 and tell me that they are just lazy.
I think that's everything........oh yeah, support local music!!!!
studiomaster
New member
Ahem...let's not hate rap music here. 
jmarques
The Original BeatMinstrel
Talent52 it would be very difficult to pull apart a mixed beat. Ideally it would be better to have all you sample separate and then when you think you have put everything together well. Then you would proceed dropping your mix to a single stereo track for mastering.
Since I have not hear your song it's hard to tell you what wrong with it, but let say for example you had the typical drums going, fat bass line and some funky hook to it, plus your vocals.
Well let say that all your samples have some kind of noise problem in the samples before they were mixed together. Then let say the drums and bass line sample you may had a problem with thumping and rumbling and your vocal has a ton of hiss going throught, but the hook is ok, because it came from a professional mixing house.
At best when everything is already mixed down you might be able to roll off the low and clean up some off the rumbling and thumping and maybe with some eq you'll be able to elimanite some hissing but at the expense of cutting into some of your other parts of your sound. Then you might try compressing certain parts of the mix with a multiband compressor only to realize anything you do here starts screwing with the dynamics of the music in unpleasing way. Instead of it making it sound solid.
You see this can really be hard to deal with once everything is already down. If you had everything in separate piece you would be able to better control your mix.
If you really can't get the original samples isolated then your really screwed. The only thing someone might be able to do is cut key parts of the arrangement and tried to recreate some of the more important elements of the track and then put it together a drum pattern and bassline from scratch and a new arrangement.
See what I'm saying here.
Since I have not hear your song it's hard to tell you what wrong with it, but let say for example you had the typical drums going, fat bass line and some funky hook to it, plus your vocals.
Well let say that all your samples have some kind of noise problem in the samples before they were mixed together. Then let say the drums and bass line sample you may had a problem with thumping and rumbling and your vocal has a ton of hiss going throught, but the hook is ok, because it came from a professional mixing house.
At best when everything is already mixed down you might be able to roll off the low and clean up some off the rumbling and thumping and maybe with some eq you'll be able to elimanite some hissing but at the expense of cutting into some of your other parts of your sound. Then you might try compressing certain parts of the mix with a multiband compressor only to realize anything you do here starts screwing with the dynamics of the music in unpleasing way. Instead of it making it sound solid.
You see this can really be hard to deal with once everything is already down. If you had everything in separate piece you would be able to better control your mix.
If you really can't get the original samples isolated then your really screwed. The only thing someone might be able to do is cut key parts of the arrangement and tried to recreate some of the more important elements of the track and then put it together a drum pattern and bassline from scratch and a new arrangement.
See what I'm saying here.
Ironklad Audio
New member
alright...in a case like yours, where you're trying to fit vox over something that's all panned to the center, my recommendation would be to:
a)put an eq on the vocal track, boost it all the way, and sweep it across the frequency range to figure out where the meat of the vocal frequencies lay...then cut this range a couple db's in the beat track
b)use a multi-band compressor and try to squash the frequencies where the beat and vocal track are overlapping
c)put a chorus on the vocals, and mess with the width/depth...maybe even double the vocal track, and give one a pinch of narrow chorus, and the other a pinch of wider chorus
if none of those get you anywhere near the right direction, then i dunno...make a new beat or something, and get it panned properly
a)put an eq on the vocal track, boost it all the way, and sweep it across the frequency range to figure out where the meat of the vocal frequencies lay...then cut this range a couple db's in the beat track
b)use a multi-band compressor and try to squash the frequencies where the beat and vocal track are overlapping
c)put a chorus on the vocals, and mess with the width/depth...maybe even double the vocal track, and give one a pinch of narrow chorus, and the other a pinch of wider chorus
if none of those get you anywhere near the right direction, then i dunno...make a new beat or something, and get it panned properly
jmarques
The Original BeatMinstrel
Talent52 said:
If you sent me your vocal track, and beat track and bpm. I would be willing to give it a shot. Although I don't consider myself a professional, I've been this shit a very long time.
Most likely I would have to ripped the beat apart and recreate alot of the beat work and anything within my abilities. Put it back together and then mixdown.
I will not even charge for it. What can I say I like a challenge!!
studiomaster
New member
How can you rip apart a "mixdown" wav file?
blueroommusic
you want this big boy?
You're right you are still "creating" so to speak...Sampling has become so tabu in hip-hop & electronic music, that it's not frowned upon anymore. I also understand being able to access sounds that you wouldn't normally be able to access.
But what about a song where the whole melody or hook is provided by a sample? is that wrong? doesn't that seem a little contrived to you?
I do listen to shadow and RJD2, and I don't think they are lazy at all...In fact I think some of their stuff is very groundbreaking as far as sampling goes....but the fact of the matter is, 99.999999% of other peoples music that uses samples is crap, is lazy, and is NOT "genius"
I'm not saying your music isn't good, but I guess I'm a little jaded after spending years in hip-hop hell...
BRIEFCASEMANX
Winner chicken dinner!
it turned into a sampling thread? weird.
Here's something to at least try: Look at the beat in a spectrum analyzer, if there are frequencies where there is a dip in the audio, boost the vocals there with an EQ. If there are frequencies where the beat is really loud, dip the vocals there using an EQ. Also try high passing the vocals and work with the cutoff frequency to see if rolling off some extreme lows might help.
All of this will likely sound like horseshit, but it's worth a try.
If it's a professional beat it won't be in mono. And if the beat sounds professional, and the vocals do too, there shouldn't be a huge problem.
Another thing, how many db's are you adding of compression? I usually compress the shit out rap vocals. That might make it "sit" better.
Here's something to at least try: Look at the beat in a spectrum analyzer, if there are frequencies where there is a dip in the audio, boost the vocals there with an EQ. If there are frequencies where the beat is really loud, dip the vocals there using an EQ. Also try high passing the vocals and work with the cutoff frequency to see if rolling off some extreme lows might help.
All of this will likely sound like horseshit, but it's worth a try.
If it's a professional beat it won't be in mono. And if the beat sounds professional, and the vocals do too, there shouldn't be a huge problem.
Another thing, how many db's are you adding of compression? I usually compress the shit out rap vocals. That might make it "sit" better.