Mixing With Outboard Gear: Logic and Pro Tools

Lionzeye

New member
Alright, I have been running my studio for a few years and have only been recording.

Please chime in and give any advice or ideas how to make the best use of the outboard gear I have, which is not much, but similar to what many out there might have and want the know how. bumpkin

So, I finally am getting to an a phase of my own productions/collaborations were I will now take mixing serious and put the technical knowledge to work. I have great plug ins but also a few good pieces of outbaord gear that I want to use in my mix.

Mixing Tools I have are basic: Three pieces

- Eq, Compressor, Pre-amps (for character)

- The Eq and compressor are mono and not stereo paired

- I have 16 A/D in and outs, but I currently have 12 channels/pres patched in

- 1-2 stereo main out, so 14 channels left for outs


I have all my signals going into pre's, then pre-amps outputs patched into patchbay channels 1-12, and of course the inputs into my converter are half normaled at input channels 1-12

Please give any advice, or ideas to make the best workflow possible while working in mostly logic. Thanks family!
 
Specifically what eqs and compressors do you have? Unless they were pretty spectacular and special I'd skip the outboard entirely, at least for the mixing stage.

A compressor can be handy during tracking if you're pretty sure you can get it right. You can't really uncompress a signal so I usually suggest doing it after tracking with a plug in. I don't use a hardware eq (other than the mixer's channel eq) more than once a year or so for tracking and never for mixing. I don't see the need, but maybe you have some $10,000 eq you just have to use.

You may want a second patch bay for your outboard gear. In one of the studios I work in there are three, one connected to the inserts on the board, one that splits the signal to the interface and one for all the outboard gear. You can patch any channel on the board to any input on the interface, and you can insert any processor into the signal path before or after the split to the interface. I mostly work with one band there so things usually stay patched as they are.
 
Staying in the box is much easier, and there many good plugins. But I've been using a hybrid system with Logic recently - just started doing some tracking with a compressor. Here are some thoughts:

The I/O plugin in Logic is what you use - it has controls for input and output gain and sample offset, but I tend to ignore those (leave the gains at 0) and instead watch the gain going in using something like Klanghelm's VUMT plugin -- that's really just a workflow thing - the I/O plug doesn't have a meter, and I don't like opening it. Unless the outboard loop is on the master bus (which I don't do a whole lot), I'm usually printing to a new track - there's an offset, sure, but I line up the printed track with the original(s) afterward and it's all good.

If the CPU ever pegs, then something about the buffer gets messed up and I have to reboot usually to get rid of an insane amount of clicks and pops on the outboard loop. For this reason, I usually try to get the outboard printing done pretty early in the process if I can, because with my old computer, it can be difficult to free up enough CPU to go outboard after I've added a bunch of plugins to the project.

For mixing, the main thing I use outboard for is compression, and usually for drums, vocals, and bass. I have an EQ that I like, but it rarely sees any action. I've tried running through preamps, and I like the idea, but I haven't yet found a situation where I actually preferred that to the good plugins - it'll probably happen at some point -- depends heavily on the source material I suppose (e.g., most of the time I recorded the material using the preamps I would want to use).

I don't use a patchbay, but my converter has DB25 ins and outs, so I just keep different sets of DB25 fan cables plugged into the various things for tracking or mixing, and then switch those out in the converter (usually moving the converter from room to room)
 
Specifically what eqs and compressors do you have? Unless they were pretty spectacular and special I'd skip the outboard entirely, at least for the mixing stage.

A compressor can be handy during tracking if you're pretty sure you can get it right. You can't really uncompress a signal so I usually suggest doing it after tracking with a plug in. I don't use a hardware eq (other than the mixer's channel eq) more than once a year or so for tracking and never for mixing. I don't see the need, but maybe you have some $10,000 eq you just have to use.

You may want a second patch bay for your outboard gear. In one of the studios I work in there are three, one connected to the inserts on the board, one that splits the signal to the interface and one for all the outboard gear. You can patch any channel on the board to any input on the interface, and you can insert any processor into the signal path before or after the split to the interface. I mostly work with one band there so things usually stay patched as they are.

Many apologies for the delay, its busy out there.

Yes two patchbays are probably need for my flow as well.

Api 550a eq and api compressor very desirable sound for me!!

Question, example; would i patch in the eq input and output on the same channel (top and bottom) input on the patchbay, and set the pcb to through input???

I still get a little confused when it comes to the application of normal and half normal, need to dive in so i can be more efficient and resourceful in larger studios.
 
Staying in the box is much easier, and there many good plugins. But I've been using a hybrid system with Logic recently - just started doing some tracking with a compressor. Here are some thoughts:

The I/O plugin in Logic is what you use - it has controls for input and output gain and sample offset, but I tend to ignore those (leave the gains at 0) and instead watch the gain going in using something like Klanghelm's VUMT plugin -- that's really just a workflow thing - the I/O plug doesn't have a meter, and I don't like opening it. Unless the outboard loop is on the master bus (which I don't do a whole lot), I'm usually printing to a new track - there's an offset, sure, but I line up the printed track with the original(s) afterward and it's all good.

If the CPU ever pegs, then something about the buffer gets messed up and I have to reboot usually to get rid of an insane amount of clicks and pops on the outboard loop. For this reason, I usually try to get the outboard printing done pretty early in the process if I can, because with my old computer, it can be difficult to free up enough CPU to go outboard after I've added a bunch of plugins to the project.

For mixing, the main thing I use outboard for is compression, and usually for drums, vocals, and bass. I have an EQ that I like, but it rarely sees any action. I've tried running through preamps, and I like the idea, but I haven't yet found a situation where I actually preferred that to the good plugins - it'll probably happen at some point -- depends heavily on the source material I suppose (e.g., most of the time I recorded the material using the preamps I would want to use).

I don't use a patchbay, but my converter has DB25 ins and outs, so I just keep different sets of DB25 fan cables plugged into the various things for tracking or mixing, and then switch those out in the converter (usually moving the converter from room to room)

Wow thanks for the info, respectfully!!

I am now going hybrid so thanks for the heads up on i/o plug, the latency issue (can this be solved without time slipping region in logic??)

Yes i agree on in the box flow vs. in the box, and i usually do record the desired sound very well in my studio, and mix/dial in the sounds i want in the recording phase and not surgically mix at all, but i have clients who dont record here and i need to get them the next level sound beyond there lo fi pres.

Thanks again! Infinitely
 
bump bump ok for the the question please...here it is

Question, example; would I patch in the eq/external effects input and output on the same channel (top and bottom) input on the patchbay, and set the patchbay configuration to through input, or normal???

I still get a little confused when it comes to the application of normal and half normal...
 
bump bump ok for the the question please...here it is

Question, example; would I patch in the eq/external effects input and output on the same channel (top and bottom) input on the patchbay, and set the patchbay configuration to through input, or normal???

I still get a little confused when it comes to the application of normal and half normal...

Don't normal the patch channels used for processors like eq, compression, reverb etc. You don't want to feed its output to its input. The details of how that's done depends on the specific patch bay.
 
Put the grey socket to the back of the patch bay for processors. Put it to the front for console inserts or defaulting preamps to interface inputs.
 
I'm not even using a patchbay, but as far as logic goes, you just select the correct output and input in the I/O plugin - doesn't matter if you're using, say, output 4 on your interface to send the signal to the outboard device and input 8 to get it back (for mono - in stereo you're limited to choosing sequential pairs for each, say, 3/4 out and 7/8 back in)

Another thing about logic if I didn't already mention it is that if you're in 'low latency' mode, logic disables a bunch of things (turning them orange on the screen), and the I/O plugin is one of them - this drove me insane before I realized what was happening
 
I'm not even using a patchbay, but as far as logic goes, you just select the correct output and input in the I/O plugin - doesn't matter if you're using, say, output 4 on your interface to send the signal to the outboard device and input 8 to get it back (for mono - in stereo you're limited to choosing sequential pairs for each, say, 3/4 out and 7/8 back in)

Another thing about logic if I didn't already mention it is that if you're in 'low latency' mode, logic disables a bunch of things (turning them orange on the screen), and the I/O plugin is one of them - this drove me insane before I realized what was happening

So, Does this mean that I cannot print/record in "low latency" mode??
 
One thing you can do, I do this a lot, is use Waves Q-Clone to capture EQ settings of outboard gear, so I can keep that Hardware Insert free'd up for other things as I move along.

If you are using your outboard a lot, you'll know what I mean.
 
Also, in Pro Tools, you'd set up Hardware Inserts. You just need to ensure that the same Input and Output channels are used per insert channel

So, EQ Left for instance would be eg. Channel 13 out, and channel 13 in. EQ Right could be Channel 14 out and channel 14 in.

You can also offset latency of hardware inserts (In HD anyway... don't recall if you can in Native)
 
Also, in Pro Tools, you'd set up Hardware Inserts. You just need to ensure that the same Input and Output channels are used per insert channel

So, EQ Left for instance would be eg. Channel 13 out, and channel 13 in. EQ Right could be Channel 14 out and channel 14 in.

You can also offset latency of hardware inserts (In HD anyway... don't recall if you can in Native)

got it, thanks ShortySMC, I will check out the QClone insert...

does anyone know how to offset latency in native PT?
 
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