Mixing out of the box

8

80hinhiding

New member
I'm interested in mixing out of the box, possibly with a Allen & Heath mixer. I haven't bought one yet. I have a Focusrite 6i6, which offers me 4 out and 4 in, really.

When I do my external mixing, does that mean I'm limited to the number of tracks (4) that I can control independently on a mixer? OR, am I missing some concept, whereby you are not limited like that by the audio interface?

Apologies if this has been covered before.
 
Yes, you are limited to 4 channels because of your interface.

You will need to get an interface that has as many outputs as you have channels, so that you can route individual instruments to the mixer.

This can be cool when you have a great mixer, but any normal Allen heath isn't going to add much mojo... More likely just noise and inconvenience.

I used to do this with a heavily modified Soundcraft Ghost. Even though I still had all the outboard left over from when I was tape based, in the box was more consistent and much less time consuming. It didn't sound any better, just different.

The difference was mainly due to the way I interact with outboard and the limitations of the equipment I was using.

It is fun, but a giant pain in the button when you need to recall a mix.
 
Farview said:
Yes, you are limited to 4 channels because of your interface.

.... any normal Allen heath isn't going to add much mojo...

...It didn't sound any better, just different.

...It is fun...

.....but a giant pain in the button when you need to recall a mix.
Click to expand...

Pretty much yes to all the above.

I still do OTB mixes using 3 converters with 24 channels total, and I do like the differences in sound I get with OTB...it's not something really dramatic, but I like the difference. Having a decent amount of outboard makes a difference in itself.
These days, I use more ITB plugs, but there are still a bunch of outboard pieces that the plugs can't emulate...and it's a different feel than mousing.

I usually don't do recalls...once I'm done mixing a track, I'm done. So the fun of OTB outweighs the need to do a recall...and even when I do them, it's not that bog a deal because I keep notes and even take some pics of the mixer/outboard settings....so I can actually set one up in about 20 minutes, which may be too prohibitive for some if working on the clock.
 
80hinhiding said:
I'm interested in mixing out of the box, possibly with a Allen & Heath mixer.
Click to expand...

Because...?

80hinhiding said:
I haven't bought one yet. I have a Focusrite 6i6, which offers me 4 out and 4 in, really.

When I do my external mixing, does that mean I'm limited to the number of tracks (4) that I can control independently on a mixer? OR, am I missing some concept, whereby you are not limited like that by the audio interface?

Apologies if this has been covered before.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're limited to 4 output channels. If you have more than 4 tracks in your project you'll have to submix ITB, losing some of the purported advantage of OTB summing/mixing.

Some people I know who used to be way into OTB summing have moved their focus to "decoupled" ITB mixing where the mix output from one DAW/computer is played in real time into a separate DAW/computer using converters that are not clocked together.

Personally I think it all sounds like a PITA, especially considering the microscopic potential for sonic improvement and the definite loss of audio quality. Better sound sources, better mic placement, better mics and better mixing are all way more likely to improve your recordings.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
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Some people I know who used to be way into OTB summing have moved their focus to "decoupled" ITB mixing where the mix output from one DAW/computer is played in real time into a separate DAW/computer using converters that are not clocked together.
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing the point of that....I mean, what exactly is that supposed to fix...or to provide as improvement (even on a microscopic level)...?
I've not heard of this until I saw you mention it the other day and here again.

That aside....I also don't see what that has to do with summing or mixing OTB through a console with outboard gear...?
I mean, are you (are "they") saying that "decoupling" two DAWs/converters is the same thing (or takes the place of) analog summing or mixing out from the DAW through a console with outboard gear...?

Heck...I have two DAW computers (more like 3)...and 5 converter boxes. I could try it, but I'm curious what that claims to achieve before bothering with setting up a comparison....? :)

bouldersoundguy said:
Better sound sources, better mic placement, better mics and better mixing are all way more likely to improve your recordings.
Click to expand...

But yeah...this ^^^ is always going to be the key to good mixes....and not what follows.
 
miroslav said:
I'm not seeing the point of that....I mean, what exactly is that supposed to fix...or to provide as improvement (even on a microscopic level)...?
I've not heard of this until I saw you mention it the other day and here again.

That aside....I also don't see what that has to do with summing or mixing OTB through a console with outboard gear...?
I mean, are you (are "they") saying that "decoupling" two DAWs/converters is the same thing (or takes the place of) analog summing or mixing out from the DAW through a console with outboard gear...?

Heck...I have two DAW computers (more like 3)...and 5 converter boxes. I could try it, but I'm curious what that claims to achieve before bothering with setting up a comparison....? :)
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell it's a small clique of engineers doing stuff that, to me anyway, looks a lot like audiophoolery. I don't have time for that kind of thing as ITB works and sounds so much better than a lot of systems that produced major hits. Maybe they get some last bit of sonic improvement doing that stuff, but who cares? If you can't make great recordings with a conventional setup it's not the fault of the setup.
 
Yeah...I think with that "decoupling" stuff...it's seriously "microscopic".

I don't deny that ITB these days can do what's needed. I think it's mostly a question of processing power, but there are certainly a lot of great plugs out there.
I just picked up the new Kush Electra EQ...great plug, but it does suck up CPU power, so the ability to run it across 24 tracks is not as simple as OTB stuff in some cases, but I have other EQ plugs that hardly move the CPU.

My personal OTB use comes from it already being here and available to me. I have the hardware...though my console is getting long in the tooth, and certainly on its own, doesn't offer any substantial quality advantages, but it does let me tap into my outboard gear easily, and it gives me that "hands on" touchy-feely thing. :)

I'm like totally hybird these days...I use lots of DAW processing...but I sill break out with 24 channels and do the mix from the DAW OTB trough the console and outboard. Having the newer/better plugs has certainly taken a load off the OTB side, not to mention the need to buy more upscale outboard to beat out the DAW plugs.
That said...I am not yet ready to give up the console...and to tell the truth, I am still looking to upgrade to a better console. There some sonic....ahhh...."differences"....that are still preferable to me.

It's just the way I prefer to roll...but I wouldn't feel "handicapped" anymore if I had to go all ITB...and if/when I do a serious studio downsize in the future...a DAW will still be there and it will allow me to do the downsize.
 
Thanks for all your replies and for confirming what I thought about my channel limitations.

As for the other discussion versus staying all ITB or OTB. All I will say is that I have tracked and mixed in a major studio before (with a Neve and a SSL), and the songs need to be there, or even the best gear doesn't mean anything (my songs weren't there at the time).

I just want to experiment, have fun and try many different things. I like getting my hands on the wheel sometimes, and other times not. I like imperfections, and what some may view as flaws or degradation actually inspires me sometimes. It's nice to blend. My goal is not to make hits, or to have the absolute best sonic quality. It's just to have fun and be happy with my recordings.

Thank you once again. I appreciate it.
 
80hinhiding said:
I just want to experiment, have fun and try many different things.
Click to expand...

Hey....ain't gonna hurt anything.

You can always set up 4 stems/subs in your DAW, and run them out the mixer through the 4-channel converter, and see how it sounds and works for you.
 
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