mixing my own voice

R

Rafael Morgan

New member
Hey guys,

This is Rafael, from Brazil. This is my first post here.

So, after many years of procrastination, I'm starting to record my own album.

Everything is running quite smoothly. I'm not a mixing or recording expert, but I've been studying a lot (and I mean A LOT) and I'm gradually managing to achieve nice results.

However, I'm having problems mixing my own voice. No matter what approach I choose, I never get satisfied with the results. I mean, regarding both the tone and overall mixing feel, I'm having a hard time trying to find the right place for it in the mix, if you know what I mean.

Is this a normal thing, I mean, people having trouble trying to mix their own voices? Could you guys give me any advice of different mixing approaches or techniques that would help to attenuate this problem?

Another thing...Would you care to share your average vocal effects chain, just for the sake of curiosity? I usually start with a corrective subtractive EQ, a compressor, a little saturation or exciter, a creative EQ (usually to give it some more air or presence) and finally a de-esser.

Well...That's it for now. Thanks in advance for you help.

My best regards,

Rafael Morgan.
 
Usual advice is: get it right when tracking and then you need to do minimum processing.
If your tracking room has good acoustic treatment then the only EQ needed is to help with your overall tone - you don't have to 'fix the room'.
 
My rule of thumb -- roll off the bottom end at about 80-100Hz and put a subtle high shelf boost on at about 10kHz. Then do some sweeps through the midrange for anything nasty or nice -- pull out nasty stuff boost nice stuff. Around 1kHz can sound harsh but depends on the mics and the recording. If there is unevenness in the volume you could try doing some heavy compression/limiting on it. Setting up a compressor on a bus and routing some of the vocal through that can help to boost and thicken things up. I'm a weak singer so have resorted to some heavy handed stuff on my tracks. Reverb and delays are good too. I often do a lot of takes so usually have plenty of layers to do comps and stack up and thicken the sound. Just my 2 cents.
 
Hey folks,

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, I've been using corrective EQ just to minimize some harsh resonant frequencies most probably related to the room itself indeed. Nothing really drastic, though.

I suspect that, at least in my specific case, the ideal "formula" is to find balance between eq/comp/verb, but finding this sweet spot has been very hard so far...I've found that the right reverb, with the right settings can do miracles to smooth things out sometimes.

I'm extremely perfectionist and I suspect the biggest part of my problem to be of psychological nature...Mixing other people's material is much easier than mixing my own...It sounds weird, but I get annoyed pretty fast while listening to my own voice.

Anyway, regarding VST compressors, do you have any suggestions of which one is best suitable for voice? I know people usually consider the LA-2A clones to be among the best for voice, but so far none of the ones I've tested impressed me. So far, the best I've tried is vladg's Molot, which is free, by the way. It sounds really smooth, at least for my voice.

Regarding tricks to thicken the voice, do you guys recommend something specific. I've tried a few stuff, like creating artificial double tracking by panning two instances on opposite sides, delaying and detuning them a little bit...I didn't experience really deeply with this technique, though.

Cheers,

Rafael.
 
I use an 1176 type plug on my vocals. I don't know if it's right or not, but I like it. I try to eq as little as I can. I'm currently using an AKG C2000 and it is different. I'm not sure I completely like it yet. So, mic choice is a big factor.

Also, are you mixing your vox to a pre-recorded beat or instrument track, or are you mixing everything? You didn't mention what you're doing. It makes a difference.

Lastly, no one likes the sound of their own voice. This affects how we treat it in the mix. Get comfortable with the tone of your voice and accept it for what it is.
 
Chili said:
I use an 1176 type plug on my vocals. I don't know if it's right or not, but I like it. I try to eq as little as I can. I'm currently using an AKG C2000 and it is different. I'm not sure I completely like it yet. So, mic choice is a big factor.

Also, are you mixing your vox to a pre-recorded beat or instrument track, or are you mixing everything? You didn't mention what you're doing. It makes a difference.

Lastly, no one likes the sound of their own voice. This affects how we treat it in the mix. Get comfortable with the tone of your voice and accept it for what it is.
Click to expand...

Hey Chili,

Thanks for the reply, brother.

What 1176 emulation are you using?

Well, I'm recording everything, including some real world instruments and a few virtual ones, so, each instrument has its own track. I'm not using loops or anything like that.

I'm using Studio One as my DAW, a Focusrite Scarlett interface, a MXL 2006 and a SM58 as mics.

Anyway, one thing I just found out is that it's better to make the overall mix tone adapt to the tone of your voice than the other way around.

Cheers,

Raf.
 
Yeah man. I use UAD plugs, almost exclusively.

Good to know you're recording everything. We get people coming here to ask how to mix vocals and it's usually rap on top of pre-mixed beats. The beats are squashed to hell and people can't understand why their vocals don't sit in the mix. :facepalm:

But having control of all the tracks is what you want. Using world instruments is a little out of my experience, but I think some similar principles apply. Find the underlying beat drivers and set them up to be the prominent tracks. Set your vocal track or main melody track to be at the same level. Then everything else at a lower levels to support the main melody and beat-drivers. In rock, I think it should be kick, bass and vox as the prominent tracks, then guitars and whatever else at lower levels so they don't compete.

Still, it's a balancing act and I'm still learning.
 
Oh wait a second, you said "Real World instruments" and maybe not "World Instruments". So maybe you mean real guitars, bass, piano, etc instead of jungle drums or pan flutes. :D
 
Chili said:
Oh wait a second, you said "Real World instruments" and maybe not "World Instruments". So maybe you mean real guitars, bass, piano, etc instead of jungle drums or pan flutes. :D
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Yeah, I meant "real world instruments", indeed. :)

Actually, I've been playing stuff since I was a kid, so I play guitar, banjo, uke, piano, harmonica, bass, mandolin and a bunch of other unnamed instruments that I've created.

I'm not a super-talented guy, but I can produce some decent sounds.

The only think I wont really "play" by myself in my project are the drums. I'm terrible with real drums, so I've been using mostly Toontrack's Superior Drummer for my drum tracks.

So far, I'm trying not to be constricted by any specific style, but my influences are mostly classic and progressive rock, blues, jazz and, of course, Brazilian music.

Hopefully, I'll manage to deliver a reasonably nice album in the near future, but I'm trying not to foment high expectations.

Raf.
 
Check out all the Variety of Sounds plugs -- they have a range of comps that are all useful. I like the Thrillseeker LA. I'm also a big fan of the Thrillseeker VBL which is an old-style broadcast limiter and is very nice on a bus. They have several others too. If you want to get into heavy compression then check out Audio Damage's Rough Rider -- it's really over-the-top but when there is huge volume discrepancies in a vocal recording it's a life saver -- it will leave artefacts at higher comp ratios, although it can sound good on the right subject. These are all free BTW:
Downloads
Audio Damage // Rough Rider
 
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Ok, I will be the guy that states that making your room more ideal for recording via acoustic treatment, and selecting a mic that works best for your voice will do much more than any effect combination or preamp (though not mentioned here) will do.

Getting it right at the source is likely the cheapest and most important step in getting vocals to sound right.

That being said, there are many ways to skin a cat. Without actually hurting a cat. :)

Compression, eq and reverb are all part of getting a vocal to sit right with a mix, but not a cure for quality of a vocal. Once 'fixing' is introduced, you are limited.

The problem with this statement is one does not know the extent of the difference between how much better it sounds after room treatment until it has been done. It is not the holy grail, but it is damn close. The good news is that room treatment is actually much less expensive than most think. Especially if you have some DIY skills.

There is truly no better/cheaper investment than treating a room. PERIOD...

Then it is much easier to judge what mic works best for any particular voice. Hell, I wouldn't even bother with a condenser mic in an untreated room for vocals. Especially if it were a small 'bedroom' size one. Better off using a dynamic and some blankets (ugh) if your room is not treated. With a condenser you are including the 'poor' room sound way more than you want.

Ok, I'm done. :)


Welcome to the site Raf!

Jimmy
 
wildschwein said:
Check out all the Variety of Sounds plugs -- they have a range of comps that are all useful. I like the Thrillseeker LA. I'm also a big fan of the Thrillseeker VBL which is an old-style broadcast limiter and is very nice on a bus. They have several others too. If you want to get into heavy compression then check out Audio Damage's Rough Rider -- it's really over-the-top but when there is huge volume discrepancies in a vocal recoding it's a life saver -- it will leave artefacts at higher comp ratios, although it can sound good on the right subject. These are all free BTW:
Click to expand...

Thanks mate,

Variety of Sound is really great indeed. I love their stuff.

I didn't know Rough Rider, though. I'll give it a try asap. :)

jimmys69 said:
Ok, I will be the guy that states that making your room more ideal for recording via acoustic treatment, and selecting a mic that works best for your voice will do much more than any effect combination or preamp (though not mentioned here) will do.

Getting it right at the source is likely the cheapest and most important step in getting vocals to sound right.

That being said, there are many ways to skin a cat. Without actually hurting a cat. :)

Compression, eq and reverb are all part of getting a vocal to sit right with a mix, but not a cure for quality of a vocal. Once 'fixing' is introduced, you are limited.

The problem with this statement is one does not know the extent of the difference between how much better it sounds after room treatment until it has been done. It is not the holy grail, but it is damn close. The good news is that room treatment is actually much less expensive than most think. Especially if you have some DIY skills.

There is truly no better/cheaper investment than treating a room. PERIOD...

Then it is much easier to judge what mic works best for any particular voice. Hell, I wouldn't even bother with a condenser mic in an untreated room for vocals. Especially if it were a small 'bedroom' size one. Better off using a dynamic and some blankets (ugh) if your room is not treated. With a condenser you are including the 'poor' room sound way more than you want.

Ok, I'm done. :)


Welcome to the site Raf!

Jimmy
Click to expand...

Hey Jimmy,

Yeah...I know that.

I'll tell you what the problem is, regarding room treatment and everything else related to home-studio. The problem is called Brazil.

All this room treatment stuff (like those special foams) is extremely expensive here since everything is imported, and Brazil's importation taxes are ridiculously high....Seriously man...My country is a joke.

Anyway, I've been watching some tutorials regarding this subject and eventually I'll try a DIY improvised approach. I'm an Industrial Designer and I have some DIY skills.

My room is not that bad, though. There's a closet, which was quickly promoted to vocal booth. ;)

I'll make sure to explore the forum's "acoustic treatment" session to learn a few tricks as well. This forum is really great.

Thanks,

Raf.
 
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Rafael Morgan said:
There's a closet, which was quickly promoted to vocal booth. ;)
Click to expand...

The smaller the space the more it affects the results. Think "inverse square law". The less distance the sound has to travel from the source to a boundary and back to the mic the louder it will be when it reaches the mic. On top of that, if you do treat the room there is very little space to work with. The treatment itself could take more volume than the room has.
 
I am curious to know if you cannot get any of those rigid fiberglass material in Brazil. These are construction materials so I think it should be available everywhere you know.
 
anoopbal said:
I am curious to know if you cannot get any of those rigid fiberglass material in Brazil. These are construction materials so I think it should be available everywhere you know.
Click to expand...

Hey man,

You mean those foam like rigid fiberglass panels? No...I've seen them on the web, on DIY home studio projects, but I could never find them around here.

Homes here are mostly built out of bricks and concrete. I believe those panels are mostly used on wooden constructions, placed between walls as heat and sound insulators, right?

Is there DIY acoustics I could do with fabric leftovers? My wife's family owns a fabrics business and they've got tons bags full of fabric leftovers there....The stuff is pretty dense.

Cheers,

Raf.
 
I believe those panels are mostly used on wooden constructions, placed between walls as heat and sound insulators, right?
Click to expand...

Mybe, but that's not how you would use it for acoustic treatment. In this case, you would cover them in fabric and place them in strategic locations in your studio.

I know you can get OC703 down there. I have a friend in Porto Alegro who has it in his studio.
 
Chili said:
Mybe, but that's not how you would use it for acoustic treatment. In this case, you would cover them in fabric and place them in strategic locations in your studio.

I know you can get OC703 down there. I have a friend in Porto Alegro who has it in his studio.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've seen how they're used for studio treatment on the web.

Maybe you could ask your friend how and where he's got them?

I couldn't find them anything like it around here.

It could be a difference in nomenclature, you know...They may be called OC703 up there and something like X90-12 around here.

Raf.
 
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