Mixing Mono! Dave Pensado Vs. Recording Revolution

GONZO-X said:
i do not know of a single person who listens to music in mono.
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And I know of almost no one whose music listening is done in a room's sweet spot where they can appreciate the stereo image. Everybody I see who listens to music has the stereo imaging messed up either with earbuds, or a boombox on top of the fridge, or behind the wheel of a car, or in a bar with God knows what speaker positions.

Anyway, we're off topic. The thread's about mixing in mono, not listening in mono. There are advantages to checking a mix in mono.
 
One of the main listening environments these days is in the car, and most vehicle stereos are pretty good. I can hear both channels of a stereo recording pretty well in mine, though one will dominate, inevitably. I just check mono in case anything disappears when summed.
 
dobro said:
And I know of almost no one whose music listening is done in a room's sweet spot where they can appreciate the stereo image. Everybody I see who listens to music has the stereo imaging messed up either with earbuds, or a boombox on top of the fridge, or behind the wheel of a car, or in a bar with God knows what speaker positions.

Anyway, we're off topic. The thread's about mixing in mono, not listening in mono. There are advantages to checking a mix in mono.
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i ALWAYS check my mixes in mono.

i think anyone who knows what they are doing, does so.
 
I listen to my mono LPs & CDs in mono - I have several & they are played often.
 
GONZO-X said:
isn't listening to a mono recording thru a stereo playback still listening in mono?
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Yes and no. A single sound source will give a single pattern of dispersion. Two speakers, even if playing the same exact thing, will make different patterns of frequencies bouncing off different walls. You're going to hear things just a bit differently through two speakers as opposed to one (as well as two needing attenuated as they will be louder). The sound itself is not different, but the interaction with the room will be. :) In headphones, yes, it would be nearly identical (except for the +3dB).
 
BroKen_H said:
Yes and no. A single sound source will give a single pattern of dispersion. Two speakers, even if playing the same exact thing, will make different patterns of frequencies bouncing off different walls. You're going to hear things just a bit differently through two speakers as opposed to one (as well as two needing attenuated as they will be louder). The sound itself is not different, but the interaction with the room will be. :) In headphones, yes, it would be nearly identical (except for the +3dB).
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that was supposed to be a rhetorical question.

;)
 
GONZO-X said:
that was supposed to be a rhetorical question.

;)
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Sorry! :facepalm:
OTOH, if I missed your humor, other noobs may miss it and assume your question wasn't rhetorical...at least now, even though I look the fool, others won't be led down the primrose path of "Mono Ghosts in Stereo". Sounds like a great song title.
 
I thought he was asking a serious question too. I though WTF? he knows this already, doesn't he? :laughings:
 
I don't think I really care about mono to be honest. For the most part it isn't an issue anyway unless you're doing something stupid with the vocals.

I can't find the video but someone posted one on my facebook feed where the vocals of a rap song (a famous one at that, I sort of recognized the name) disappeared when it was summed to mono. That just tells me the mix engineer is a fucking idiot, although I'm sure he won a grammy for that garbage but who knows.

I don't personally think other elements disappearing in mono is a big deal, but Jesus Christ the vocals should always come through (at least the main ones). In other words if you chose to listen in mono, then you get what you get. As long as the song doesn't totally deconstruct then I don't really care that elements other than the main vocal lines disappear.

The main thoughts about when mono might be encountered is on single speaker phones. To be honest though who the fuck listens to music on a small POS speaker on their phone.
 
Thanks for all the great replies and opinions. There is a lot to learn from JUST the various posts and responses on this thread alone. Mixing in stereo and checking in mono is sounding more important than not. The stereo imaging of modern music is part of the vibe and feel. So mixing in mono only, would probably be just a serious personal preference because in 2015 we have stereo playback systems. With that said any of the members who posted on this thread would feel really stupid if your main VOX track or a main mix element just vanished in mono. But as Guitargodgt said above, the f____ idiot might have won a grammy for his song that LOST the lead VOX in mono...so, mixing in stereo alone could still win you a grammy, but only loose respect amongst knowledgeable audio engineers and those few people listening (or take notice) in mono if you mix collapses in mono. (I wonder if the grammy panels check all mixes in mono..lol:laughings:)

I like this advice, it sounds reasonable to say the least. What do you think?

by Ashcat
More importantly, a lot have people have said (I have found it to be true at least for the things that I do) that if you start a mix in mono, and do most of your EQing and leveling before starting to pan things out, that it is just plain easier to get everything to sit together nicely. Then it's just a matter of spreading things out a bit and maybe carefully adding some special stereo goodies, but then checking back in mono to make sure you haven't ruined everything again. In my experience, it is always easier than starting stereo and then having to make adjustments for mono-compatibility afterwards. There are plenty of folks that argue this point, but it is at least somewhat true that it's harder to hear (for instance) frequencies that might be clashing between two instruments if they are panned far apart.
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Lionzeye said:
But as Guitargodgt said above, the f____ idiot might have won a grammy for his song that LOST the lead VOX in mono...so, mixing in stereo alone could still win you a grammy, but only loose respect amongst knowledgeable audio engineers and those few people listening (or take notice) in mono if you mix collapses in mono. (I wonder if the grammy panels check all mixes in mono..lol:laughings:)
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i doubt they care about collapsing to mono.
LOL

if you mix for state of the art....
you assume folks that care are listening on systems that can give it a fair shot.

and we're not talking movie or tv soundtracks here....

many pros swear by strict L-C-R mixing.
how do you rectify that with Mono mixing?

bottom line is,
you have to get good at mixing to stereo, and if to DO THAT, you must collapse your mix to MONO to check for phase issues,
then that's what you should learn to do.

some people can hear these issues without having to go to mono to do it,
it's part of becoming a good mixer.

listen to ANY good classic rock mix,
especially the ones that are done strictly LCR (they are legion),
and if you collapse to MONO, they will still totally work.
that's the brass ring.
 
I generally find that I only mix in mono at 2 points for a single song. Once when first starting, when adjusting the levels of each track, but before doing any panning...and the second time, sometime later on, I'll collapse it to mono to check for phase issues and to make sure I can still hear all tracks as they should be. Other than that, I'm always in stereo.
 
I prefer my mono littelpapercone for most mixing over neumann monitors, currently using a rotel power amp in bridged mono mode and it reveals a lot of information, I'm not saying mono is better, it's just a useful tool for getting the balance fx send levels and EQ spot on, then when you hear it in stereo the separation is usually amazing.
 
BE AWARE OF PAN LAWS.

if you think your levels are perfect in mono,
then start spreading them out,
everything changes with the balance,
based on YOUR DAW's PAN LAWS
 
If you break the PAN LAWS is it just a fine, or are the jail terms involved???
Sorry, just liked the way that sounded...
 
GONZO-X said:
BE AWARE OF PAN LAWS.

if you think your levels are perfect in mono,
then start spreading them out,
everything changes with the balance,
based on YOUR DAW's PAN LAWS
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Good point. I've seen anything from 0dB to 6dB so that could make a substantial difference. I wouldn't take a mono starting mix too literally. Checking the mix with a mono button after panning is more useful.
 
Lionzeye said:
Ok, So, Dave Pensado has recommended on an ITL episode (I think "More ways to widen your tracks" , but not exactly sure which one) that MONO is DEAD...mix in stereo to keep up with the times!!!

Now, The Recording Revolution newsletter I just received says a valuable lesson is to mix in MONO...that dynamics like EQ and maybe compression can create better results when it comes to real world listening - claiming that most don't listen on Head Phones, and don't listen in the perfect "sweet spots" i.e. computer speakers, cars, home audio, or clubs, were the sweet spot is virtually not there. It is quoted in the article "Rather by the time the left and the right speakers sounds reach your ears, they are collapsed into one big mono mix." Recording Revolution

Dave Pensado is quoted on RR website as taking great much of there great advice. I love you both, not picking sides here!!

Is there an objective logic to this truth or is it totally a matter of a personal (subjective) thing?;)
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I personally mix in stereo, but I am in love with LCR mixing!

Except for toms... :rolleyes:
 
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