Mixing Heavy Guitars!

S

SomberRacoon

New member
Hey, amateur here.

I've been trying to mix guitars for my band. It was recorded DI'ed and I've added virtual amps to it. It's quite heavy and distorted but i've been having trouble getting the track too stand out on the mix. It's a three piece band so it needs to be quite prominent. I've tried double tracking it and stereo spreading it but nothing seems to make it sound full and prominent.

Any advice would be very much appreciated! :guitar:
 
When you say double track, do you mean played it twice or copied the first track? The latter will do nothing for your sound. If you recorded the track twice, did you pan the two tracks apart?

It might be best to post up a sample of what you have so we can hear what you're dealing with. It's gonna be hard to really advise when we know nothing about the style of the song, guitar playing, sound/tones desired.
 
just off hand, i'd say strip off all the junk....

leave the tracks as they were originally recorded, UNLESS you are referring to RE-AMPing......

and mix it as pure as you can get it.

aggression more often comes from the WAY something was played, more than the amount of distortion it has.

eq it as close as you can get it to what you need for the mix, and then, if it REALLY NEEDS to be more distorted, try a parallel send to a buss that has a amp sim or distortion patch across it.

Izotope Trash would be perfect.
 
Without hearing it, I can only give you guesses as to why it isnt working.

1. Too much distortion. This with give you a fuzzy mess that doesn't let you hear what the guitar is playing. You need to dial in a crunchy sound, not a fuzzy one.

2. Scooping the mids. Guitars are a midrange instrument, if you scoop out all the mids, all you are left with is mud and hiss. That isn't what will cut through a mix and sound agressive

3. Copy and paste. You actually need to play the part twice in order to create stereo by panning them apart. Copy/paste doesn't work.

You need to post an mp3 of what you have. Then you will get specific recommendations for your situation.
 
Keep in mind when mixing heavy guitars less is more. Try backing off the distortion a bit. Over distorting guitars as a means to acheive a "heavier" more "prominent" sound will actually just make them sound weaker and thinner.
Post a clip. We can't really suggest a whole lot if we can't hear the track for ourselves.
 
GONZO-X said:
just off hand, i'd say strip off all the junk....

leave the tracks as they were originally recorded, UNLESS you are referring to RE-AMPing......

and mix it as pure as you can get it.

aggression more often comes from the WAY something was played, more than the amount of distortion it has.

eq it as close as you can get it to what you need for the mix, and then, if it REALLY NEEDS to be more distorted, try a parallel send to a buss that has a amp sim or distortion patch across it.

Izotope Trash would be perfect.
Click to expand...
Yep. I really want to hear this metal album with nothing but clean DI guitars. BRUTAL!!!:facepalm:

Actually, as I understand it, black metal is kind of all about throwing out convention and finding the worst possible sound, so maybe you could sell it that way.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Yep. I really want to hear this metal album with nothing but clean DI guitars. BRUTAL!!!:facepalm:

Actually, as I understand it, black metal is kind of all about throwing out convention and finding the worst possible sound, so maybe you could sell it that way.
Click to expand...

LOL, i guess you didn't read my post.
or at least, comprehend it.

so, back to the OP's question:

"unless you are referring to re-amping"

i suppose that the journey of learning to mix properly, must take many side roads before the true path is obvious.

maybe you are right, ashcat, clean di would be brutal, if it could be mixed somehow, with maybe, the filthiest guitars ever heard...

i remember way way back, first time i listened to rundgren's 'the death of rock and roll', and i heard that clean plinky direct guitar mixed in under the gnarly stuff....
i guess he split the signal, and took it 3 or 4 different ways....
i'd tell my buddies 'hear the clean guitar under the distorted one', and they'd always say "huh?"

LOL

but it's there, adding a certain clarity that would not have been there otherwise.
 
GONZO-X said:
LOL, i guess you didn't read my post.
or at least, comprehend it.

so, back to the OP's question:

"unless you are referring to re-amping"

i suppose that the journey of learning to mix properly, must take many side roads before the true path is obvious.

maybe you are right, ashcat, clean di would be brutal, if it could be mixed somehow, with maybe, the filthiest guitars ever heard...

i remember way way back, first time i listened to rundgren's 'the death of rock and roll', and i heard that clean plinky direct guitar mixed in under the gnarly stuff....
i guess he split the signal, and took it 3 or 4 different ways....
i'd tell my buddies 'hear the clean guitar under the distorted one', and they'd always say "huh?"

LOL

but it's there, adding a certain clarity that would not have been there otherwise.
Click to expand...

Some of the songs on Alice In Chains's "Unplugged" were pretty heavy. Heaviness is more than half in the writing. Maybe way more.
 
Hazard Nova said:
Some of the songs on Alice In Chains's "Unplugged" were pretty heavy. Heaviness is more than half in the writing. Maybe way more.
Click to expand...

exactly my point.

but if the OP really wants the 'brutalz' (LOL) and layer more than just a couple of guitars, they need to figure out the distortion vs clarity vs capture technique vs mixing technique thing.

all too often, folks reach for the gain knob, and turn it in the wrong direction, looking for brutal.
low end clarity is key...... as well as knowing when to get rid of it.
 
GONZO-X said:
low end clarity is key...... as well as knowing when to get rid of it.
Click to expand...

That sounds like good advice to me. I'd also add that in the writing, if you're just playing fast and in a minor key, that's not enough to make it heavy. Songs tend to sound heavier when they break key and mix up tempos or subdivisions.

This stuff about the guitars reminds me of an ongoing debate I have with a friend of mine over whether metal (like Emperor or My Dying Bride) sounds heavier than regular hard rock (think Prong or Helmet). He thinks metal sounds heavier, but to me metal mostly sounds like fuzz. The analogy I make is to a guy who's welded a bunch of knives all over his suit of armor and is carrying around two enormous swords and also has a chain mace slung over his back, vs. a guy carrying one medium-sized katana that he really knows how to use. Which guy is probably more deadly? My money's on the guy with the katana.
 
GONZO-X said:
LOL, i guess you didn't read my post.
or at least, comprehend it.
Click to expand...
I did read your post, and the OP. Did you? Does it count as re-amping if it's never been through an amp to begin with? Isn't that just amping?

But you said take off everything, which leaves a clean DI guitar. Now, I'm all for the "less is more" thing, and can see where mixing clean and distorted can be another technique that can work, but I can't imagine too many scenarios where a straight DI guitar is going to be worth much of a damn without a whole lot of EQ and compression and other fucking around trying to emulate what an amp might do, which is kinda what that amp simulator the OP put on was supposed to accomplish.

So, if I plug into my amplifier and turn the knobs and it doesn't end up sounding like I want in the mix, you want me to unplug from the amp and just go DI? That'll help? Not tweak the knobs on the amp, or try a different amp/cab/mic, just go DI and try to EQ into shape? Hmmm... Nope, guess I don't comprehend that.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I think getting another guitar track down will help a lot. I've done the best i can any advice would be awesome! Here's a sample of the chorus. :guitar:
 

Attachments

  • Output 1-2.mp3
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ashcat_lt said:
I did read your post, and the OP. Did you? Does it count as re-amping if it's never been through an amp to begin with? Isn't that just amping?

But you said take off everything, which leaves a clean DI guitar. ........ Hmmm... Nope, guess I don't comprehend that.
Click to expand...

actually, just for clarity here, i said: "leave the tracks as they were originally recorded, UNLESS you are referring to RE-AMPing......"
 
You need to kick some OD plugins into this so it stops sounding like 60's beach music meats metal. Getting a good clear (meaning clarity of note, not signal) OD will stand this out a bit...
 
View attachment Sudden Loop.mp3
This was done direct in from my Hamer with no amp or effects. The sound you hear is from a Reason Combinator patch called Hell Spawn (modified a bit) with some interesting cv programming to get the harmonics to come out on the longer notes. It may not be exactly what you're looking for, but it gives you an idea of what you can do with 2 od's 1 fuzz, 2 compressors + a dual band compressor, 2 chorus, 2 digital delays and a phaser run through the aux.
 
From the breakdown sample it pretty obvious you want monster heavy thud dulled with no top end or interest generic heavy guitars. That's a pity as I quite liked what you have in the 1st sample.
 
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