Mixing distorted guitars Rick Rubin style

[ecktronic]

Any folk out there got pro experience with mixing distorted guitars?I have two guitars and used a 57 and a 58 on different speakers for tracking. Used a marshall dsl100 tube amp with 1960 4x12 cab. The two guitar tones are quite different but both play major parts in the mix. Both rythym alot of the time.
I was wondering if anyone had any tips atall on this matter of mixing.
I amnt sure whether to use a little compression or not yet. I have heard that if you dont hear a visible difference from using an effect, then dont use it, but when listening to commercial CDs like System of a down they must use some compression to give more body to them. The guitar tracks have good levels. By this i mean that when the guitars are heavy they are at a pretty consistent levels. Compression is not needed to bring down some parts of the waves and because of this i am confused as to whether i should even use compression.
I know that i should just listen and hear what is best, but i aint a pro, so any info from experience would be of a great help to me.

[ryanlikestorock]

My understanding about distorted guitar sounds is that 90% of your sound comes from tracking. The right amp, guitar, mics, placement (phasing), what format you're recording to, the board you use, pre-amps, etc.

Now that you have the sound recorded, you can work with the remaining 10% of the sound with compression if you like, but you may just take the dynamics out of the sound and ruin the mix.

Try something subtle like a tube simulator or different reverbs at 4-5% mix to see what that does to the sound. Really though, what you're hearing currently is 90% of what you're going to have in the end.

[ecktronic]

Cheers man. Just suttleties in the efects department then. But dont bands like linkin park use loads of processing to get that sound? Or is it just their amazing set up they have.
I am about 80% happy with the way the guitars have been tracked. So i should still be able to get a semi pro sound outa that. I dont have a tube plug in, so will just use a comp-sc or something from pro tools.

[maskedman72]

what you are asking is covered in great detail in 3 parts here. there is amazing info in these 3 links. read all of it. they cover guitar compression in great detail in part 2.
enjoy!!!!

-jay


Here are the links:

Part I:
http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=4095

Part II:
(Mainly a compiling of Slipperman's posts from Part I with some banter).
http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php?t=7486

Part III:
http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewto...p?t=9419&postd ays=0&postorder=&start=0

[Cloneboy Studio]

To get good guitar sounds you have to start with the tone you want to capture and further refine it with some eq. Generally I don't like too much compression on electric guitar as the signal is already grossly compressed in the amp.

Bands like Linkin Park are more than likely *HIGHLY* overdubbed, with 6-8 tracks of guitar minimum. Additionally, each take has probably been punched in to perfection, time aligned, cut-n-pasted until it is perfect.

Having a good console/preamp probably helps. IMHO the mic preamp is a large determiner of guitar sound "depth".

[Ronan]

The system of a downn stuff is very heavily compressed and limited. For what its worth, Rick Rubin does not engineer of mix records.

[ecktronic]

Enginering is the part of tracking, not mixing. I thought the mixing was up to the producer. Am i wrong?
What does the producer (rick rubin) actually do then if i am wrong?

[BrettB]

To get good guitar sounds you have to start with the tone you want to capture and further refine it with some eq. Generally I don't like too much compression on electric guitar as the signal is already grossly compressed in the amp.

Bands like Linkin Park are more than likely *HIGHLY* overdubbed, with 6-8 tracks of guitar minimum. Additionally, each take has probably been punched in to perfection, time aligned, cut-n-pasted until it is perfect.

Having a good console/preamp probably helps. IMHO the mic preamp is a large determiner of guitar sound "depth".

I don't always agree with the heavy overdubbing part. Many overdubs can clutter a mix. Some of the most powerful guitar albums, like Rage Against The Machine for example have only 2 overdubs as a maximum. If you have the right tone and good mix, they will blast out of your speakers. Many overdubs can't hide a crappy tone.

[spoonie g]

Many overdubs can't hide a crappy tone.

.....but I think they are used to hide a crappy player.

[11miles]

I've never liked the linkin park guitars.
Just to muddy for my taste and though the mix is still superb i would still go for the RATM guitars any time.

If you like heavy guitars maybe you should try this:
I dont know if you are familiar with the German band RAmmstein?
The guitars are just great. Really great.
Their sound was enormous on their debut album from '95 and just got bigger with evry next record.
For reference
1. Asche Zu Asche (Album-HERZELEID)
2. Buck Dich (A-Sehnsucht)
3. Ich Will (A-Mutter).
The last is in my opinion THE guitar song, as fas as heavyness is concerned!

The sound is really heavy and still very good mix on the end!

The guitarists use MEsa Boogies on stage and i am not sure but it was said that they layed 24 tracks of guitar(overdubs) on the Mutter record.


How do they get it to sound so hard?

As far as i know it has something to do with delaying the track. Not adding delay, but delaying the whole track(overdub for 7-10ms).
And all 24 tracks are of course spliced, moved, and most of all recorded almost perfectly!

Something to listen for. I really suggest it.

About the RATM?
I really think that is one hell of a good record. Hands up, Andy Wallace