Mixing the bottom end

songsj

Member
Guys I have pretty good control; over most of my mix with the exception of the bottom end frequencies. Bass guitar, kick drum etc. They sound really pretty good on my 3 sets of monitors and in My car but really break up things like desktop computer speaker. I'm trying apples to apples comparisons with store bought CD's of similar style and I just can't quite seem to get it. Kick drum bass and over all low end want to distort and break up low end speakers. I need to get a handle on this because a lot of people listen on crap speakers and headphones so mixes need to transfer as well as they can. Does this sound like I need to remove some low end with eq or look for more low end compression with a multi-band compressor. I have most of the Waves plugins. My monitors are Yamaha HS8, Alesis Elevate 6 and Alesis M1 MKII Active.
 
I have trouble with this too. Make sure you don't have too much going on in the very low end, like below 30 hz. Also watch the low mids too. I know my crappy speakers can't handle too much low mid.
 
Great! Take out all the bottom end so morons who's idea of audio fidelity is laptop speakers are happy.

Sorry, doesn't solve your problem. It's just a sarcastic response to today's music listening environment.

:D
 
Great! Take out all the bottom end so morons who's idea of audio fidelity is laptop speakers are happy.

Sorry, doesn't solve your problem. It's just a sarcastic response to today's music listening environment.

:D
Just wanted to make sure you get a notification. Na, I don't think it wise to mix for marginal hi-fi systems, but a paying client is a paying client. One can also have standards.

For several years now, my DAW can will do a analyze and mimic tone balance thing on the Mastering rack. Not tried it, but it could be interesting
 
Here is the standard freeware used by multitudes. Free VST Plugins, Free AAX and AU Plugin Download | Voxengo It is called SPAN, and is very informative. Look at some respected mixes and check out their low end content, and then use that info on your own. You are certainly not alone in this difficulty, before digital became the norm, life was easier with tape machines, they naturally rolled off around 50 cycles so you didn't have all this build-up of multiple sources that have low frequency content that needs filtering. Hi-pass filtering of individual tracks at 6db/octave at around 50 cycles will hardly impact even bass guitar and low synth notes, but will make your mixes come together more easily. If like about every music fan and listener on the planet you like full range playback with extra boom, add a sub to your playback system. It will give you the bottom you crave and you won't be adding it into mixes to hear it. Even your best pair, which look to be the yamahas, were designed for flat playback and making them sound like the loudness button is on in your stereo is going to mess up your mixes.....
 
SPAN is good, I get to the B-section of VST names first.

Ya, all my monitors and speakers get the Loudness Compensation as a cross-check. Hardware curves can be different and work in different ways, but it is good way to see if there is too much mixed in the top and bottom.
 
Too much low-end can be several things all at once. But before you start scrambling for additional plug-ins check your mixing methodology first.

Are you mixing too loud? This will most times give you a false sense of balance in a room that is not treated as well as it could be.

Are you mixing to stems rather than trying to cram all the information through a single master fader? A water hose analogy is an appropriate way to describe this. The larger the path, the easier the flow.
 
We have tools and we can triangulate response without speakers. Playing the monitor game, there is no end to tricks - like Bob Clear"bottom"s Apple computer speakers. Your bass drops serenade, probably, might deserve at different tactic. I don't mind getting my bearings by pulling up my samples and loops for reference as they were engineered at a mix level - so many mV for bass, or, kick, and so many mV for piano, etc..
 
A lot of times, the amount of low end isn't the problem as much as the dynamics of the low end. Compressing the individual instruments that have the offending lows will help.

Because it's hard to judge how dynamic the low end is, your mix and a reference track can sound similar while having wildly different low end peaks.

If you can't remix, then a multiband compressor would be a solution. But actually controlling the dynamics of the individual instruments would be the preferred way of doing it.

Also, you can try hi-passing everything that doesn't have any usable information below 80hz, just in case the rumble of some instrument that doesn't need the sub lows is what is causing the problem.
 
A lot of times, the amount of low end isn't the problem as much as the dynamics of the low end. Compressing the individual instruments that have the offending lows will help.

Because it's hard to judge how dynamic the low end is, your mix and a reference track can sound similar while having wildly different low end peaks.

If you can't remix, then a multiband compressor would be a solution. But actually controlling the dynamics of the individual instruments would be the preferred way of doing it.

Also, you can try hi-passing everything that doesn't have any usable information below 80hz, just in case the rumble of some instrument that doesn't need the sub lows is what is causing the problem.

Yes. HPF is your friend.
 
Well mixed bottom end will sound good on everything from computer speakers to club systems. I am always amazed how dance music producers get this right, everything from in ear headphones to monster subs, the same principles work for rock music. It's some very clever eqing of the bottom end, remove the mud and leave in the bits you want to hear. With most styles of music, have a good look at the low mids as often this muddles the lows, and with the lows roll of the sub lows a little below 30hz as there is not a lot there that most speakers can reproduce, when this is played on a large system the sub will be found.

Also watch out for compression especially during mastering as the compression often attacked the bottom end energy and can actually increase the volume of the bottom end. And your monitoring and room acoustics need to be spot on so that you can actually hear the problems when mixing and mastering.

Alan.
 
All great advice, I'm kind of with and shooting for Alan's perspective, or trying to get as close as I can with what I have to work with. My problem [ and everyone else's] is that 10 to 15 years ago CD's were the standard. Car radios, boom boxes, home stereo's etc. Back then people used to say send me a cd. Now they say email me an mp3 file and listen to them on smart phones, tablets, laptops, ear buds, or cheap computer speakers. I Convert my finished mixes to 320kbps/44.1k. I feel like my mixes need to transfer to sound good on all of them. That is making the job harder and more critical especially with the bottom end because that will give these toy listening devices fits first. Looks like I need to become a student of the bottom end of my mixes and will probably be better off for it in the long run. What is most frustrating is that a great engineer in my area could probably school me in a few hours what will take me months to figure out if I ever really get it. I may pay him his 100.00 per hour just to gain the first hand knowledge. The short cut through him may be cheapest in the long run. I don't do this for a living but my time is valuable.
 
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Have a read of this article, Link

I also should have said before that one thing I have learned over the years is that if you want to hear more bass, like the bass guitar or the kick, try turning down the low end eq of the bass or kick and then turning up the volume. You get the impression that there is much more bottom end in the mix then there actually is. I do a similar thing when I mix live, one venue only has a 12" and horn boxes for front of house, I shelve the lows to zero with a constant straight line below 100hz as the speakers can't reproduce these frequencies well, and with a bit of low mid tidy up (room problems). When I put a full band through the system the audience, and other musicians in the room, can't believe how much bass guitar and kick they hear, thats because it's clear.

Alan.
 
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Right now I am experimenting with some Waves mulitband compressors, C4, C6. Trying to learn them inside and out. I've heard they can do wonders but also screw things up badly if used improperly. Think that is true of most plugins. Also to complicate things I usually am working with stereo backing tracks, sometimes with a stereo music track, and a separate stereo drum kit track. Vocals are all separate. This complicates things as to some extent I am remastering the music tracks to see if I can improve them but am to some extent limited by what is done to them before I get them. I have no control over that. Then the vocals have to lay in there like they are all part on the original recording.
 
This is a fascinating education.
For myself, I've recorded and mixed hundreds of hours of my own and other band's music....without actually knowing any of the science behind it.

The technology was simply fiddling with the knobs till it sounded good. Of course if the client thought it sounded good it 'was' good.

It's easier to do in an all analog realm, but now that I'm a combination of analog and ITB, all this technical stuff needs to be learned as well.

I look at myself with the analogy of a self taught guitarist having to learn music theory late in the game.
:D
 
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